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VE alloytec manifold

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by 1989mitty, Jul 19, 2009.

  1. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    hey guys ,

    just wondering if there would be any advantage making a straight runner intake manifold to replace the upper and lower section of the intake system on a ve alloytec,

    i know a performance manifolds make a new top section but for 2 grand and they dont even portmatch the lower section thats extra is a bit steep, when in part you could make a full straight runner for alot less?

    IF i was to come up with a new manifold would there be interest in people buying them ? its not going to look stock if you want to retain that look.

    Will basicaly be like the custom LS manifold but with only 6 runners and ill be playing around with longer and shorter runners, to find the best gain.

    Once i have found a system that works i would have the part mass produced and welded up, if theres enough interest, i can also offer a replacement system on the stock manifold ported, you buy one i send you a ported one you send your old one back.
     
  2. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    alloytec

    Also looking into doing a cross flow style like the walker intake but for the alloytec not ecotec.

    Can you just run two throttle bodies off the one input like just splice wires onto the old loom and add another throttle body, wouldnt need the throttle postition feedback loop just the power which controls the throttle body as it would know its postion from the orginal.
     
  3. KiWi1

    KiWi1 11.00@126 Miss dat ****

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    With only a selected handful workshops doing mods on the Alloytec, i would say wait til cam, heads, testing has been done, before bothering about the flow of the OE manifold.

    Simon
     
  4. wizeabe

    wizeabe New Member

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    I'd be interested, especially if it provides more performance per dollar. :D
     
  5. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    No one has interest in alloytecs i was on teh for front with so many worlshops in trying to do research but they all fell through many with teh lack of support with tuning, so my only option have be n/a old school mods, like port polishing or custom parts
     
  6. KiWi1

    KiWi1 11.00@126 Miss dat ****

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    Some are testing/tuning the Alloytecs, but no one is really releasing any info on R&D about them, except tuning figures etc

    Simon
     
  7. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    I know theres cams being tested but at 4 grand for 4 sticks save up some more cash and go FI , but im getting the most out of my motor N/A befor thinking about FI, 2 grand for a stock looking manifold. They show good results but, its just the mass market that make things cheap, i already have a few comanys that will mass press all the parts needed in aliminuim, than just the welding side of things i just need to guage a level of interest and all savings will be passed on,

    Its not good enough to say oh wait things are in R&D when people dont keep us updated, my biggest fight is with the tuning support from VCM instead of following on with alloytecs as they said they have seen better interest in teh over seas market.

    Cams are a great upgrade but not being tunable with a 08 model ute is no good and my only other option is piggy back ecu with fuel and air only
     
  8. KiWi1

    KiWi1 11.00@126 Miss dat ****

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    Agreed FI is another option of N/A especially with 4 cams and liuke 1000 valves. I hate pulling them apart and putting them together.

    I dont deal with too much V6 Alloytec engines, mainly V8's SBC, BBC, LS1/2's etc. I work on heads and cams, not FI

    Simon
     
  9. pt72supra

    pt72supra New Member

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    I'd be interested.
    I'm in the process of working on a straight runner esque manifold myself. There would be significan't gains as well...

    My application is FWD though here in the states, we run the "190" in our daily driver sedans. We even have an "205"KW Alloytec. Which consists of different heads, exhaust cam, and intake manifold. These are ran in the SUVs here.

    The issue with the straight runners manifolds though is the clearance on the hood. I've though about running two separate plenums, but I'm unsure how to get the dual TB DBW to work. Do you have any ideas?

    You'd also have to run a single MAF split into two throttle bodies, but it would significantly improve throttle response. Not to menion you could buy a larger MAF and tune it with HP Tuners, to recalibrate the flow just giving you some extra CFMs.

    I've found out that once you hit around 290 horsepower, You're leaving about 12 horse on the table with the stock TB and MAF. I'd say thats pretty significant especially since We only need another 100 CFM of flow to get that back...

    OH.. I forgot.

    The biggest issue for running an aftermarket intake manifold is the replacement of the lower runners. You have a choice, make billet flanges, with hopefully the exact fit for the injectors, and relocate all the bolts. OR, if you have it as all one piece, you may not have enough space to bolt on the runners once you get it in the motor.

    You won't have access to the bolts in any way that I can see.
     
  10. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    Im Unsure of the injector issue ill have a look tomorrow, as for running dual throttle body one way around it is to run maf bolted the throttle body than just run pipes to both plenums, im goign to be port/polihsing my stock manifold tomorrow just smoothing out the rough cast and punching it out a mil in all ports.

    Also changing to NGK plugs and a new intake setup same as my old OTR but out of fiberglass with a bigger panel filter.
    Going to take measurements for the flanges tomorrow and see about the bolting issue, if the porting of stock manifold is effective i will buy some manifolds off crashed cars and start porting them for sale will be a return system i send you the new one and you send your old one back, ill see how much works in it but im thinking $250 plus postage is reasonable.

    Would any one be interested in a porting service to stock manifold?

    Im interested in the 205kw alloytec ? any chance of you getting me heads cams and intake out of one of these and how can u run these motors in FWD?
     
  11. pt72supra

    pt72supra New Member

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    I can get you the heads and cams, you only want the exhaust cam that one has more duration but no more lift. The heads we're supposedly reworked... They are expensive though.
     
  12. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    Ive had mine apart today cleaned the oil out of it changed the plugs to NGK one the old ones had burnt oil on them and put a new otr intake on.

    I will get regrinds unless those exhaust cams you have are cheap? and wont worry about the heads , good news is i have gotten a lower manifold to do some porting on i was goign to port mine today but i needed my car together, now just need to get hold of a upper part and ill be away on the porting side, once i get one i done i can do back to back dyno tests of the porting.

    There is some rough cast in the upper manifold but the bottom half is not bad still needs cleaning,

    I see in the states you have a thing that bolts after your thorottle body and swirls the air around or somthing any one had anything to say on these ?
    There is only two bolts holding the lower manifold on so it should be ok going for straight runner cross flow dual plenums as long as u can get a extention onto these
     
  13. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    There is three vaccum lines to be worked into it and a airflow/pressure sensor at the back of it, This makes me think it would be easier to make a single plenum straight runner type with just two bolts holding it down.

    Or dual ones but have the air flow/pressure sensor on one side and run a small tube across the two to equalize pressure, if one side is slightyly smaller the pressure can be different even if the same flow is going to both.

    Also the injectors will need to be re-worked as they are set up on a common rail and fit perfectly between the upper and lower manifolds but not to hard to get some rails welded up and just have flexiable pipe for the fuel to run in,
     
  14. pt72supra

    pt72supra New Member

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    Take pics of what you're talking about, because I'm not sure what you mean. Im positive there are more than two bolts, and I don't know of an air swirler. Can you show me what you are talking about please?
     
  15. Corbs1234

    Corbs1234 New Member

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    anything else happening here? this looked quite promising.
    i'd be interested to see what happens here before purchasing a CPR6
     
  16. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    There is more than two bolts yes in the upper manifold,but the lower section is only held on with two bolts there for the new manifold could use these two bolts only for mounting,

    The more i look into it the harder its going to be to re-create a manifold as the injectors rails will have to be all custom, i do how ever, offer a port matched upper and lower manifold for a ve alloytec 190 kw version, the upper and lower manifold ahve been port matched to suit mace intake spacers,

    This is strickly a swap deal, ill send you the new ones and you send you old un ported ones back only for ve alloytec 190.

    you will require more gasket goo for the spacers .

    Price is 400 plus postage and $140 extra if you dont have the spacers ill send you a set included,

    These are not ported intakes just port matched and cleaned up runners, also the hump inside the lower manifold where the injector protrudes into the manifold has been reduced.

    Will attach pictures asap.

    I offer this to everyone but your manifold will have to be sent to me with your spacers and i will require two days to do it.
    Price is 350 to do your manifolds and you cover postage both ways.

    If you sit the spacers on the lower manifold you can see there is about 2-3 mm extra on the manifold compared to the spacers this is the same if not more on the upper manifold. This interupts flow of air into the cylinders. Can be seen quite well in the third picture.

    The casting process is very rough on the upper manifold but not as bad on the lower section. These are not highly polished just enought o open teh ports and promote better flow.


    Have not had it dynoed back to back yet, as i took it off done the work and put it back on a dyno run would not be accurate a few days apart, if someone purchases this and does a back to back dyno run and emails me the results i will refund 100 dollars,

    Although on the road you can feel more touque down low and in middle range and slighty more power. Im not claiming results as i dont know this is just how it feels.

    PM me for more info or txt msg 0409664536

    Progressive pics soon
    First lower manifold port matched and runners cleaned up still to sand paper wheel
    [​IMG]

    Port unmatched standard cast
    [​IMG]

    Intake spacers showing manifold overlap
    [​IMG]

    First port and intake spacer matched Still to sand paper wheel
    [​IMG]

    Second port rough matched
    [​IMG]

    Second port matched and runners done still to sand paper wheel
    [​IMG]

    Lower manifold section that bolts to heads burred and rough finished
    [​IMG]

    Lower manifold section that botls to heads burred
    [​IMG]

    Standard cast lower section
    [​IMG]

    Amount of casting taken out in the port matching process
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  17. wizeabe

    wizeabe New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm assuming the reason why you're only doing the 190 engine is because you don't have access to the 180 manifolds to do a clean swap, am I right to assume so?

    Will you eventually be able to offer this to be done to the 180 engine? Possibly if the manifolds are just sent to you instead of a swap.

    Cheers,
    Abe
     
  18. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    Yes that is correct, this is my manifold im doing now i have done another one on my test vehicle, which was a similar modded vz 190 with exhaust CAI intake spacers,
    I do not have pictures of this manifold as its in my mates ute,

    This is one im in the process of doing and should be completed soon, if i can find a wreaked 180 manifold and do it i will be able to do the swaps on the 180 engines but for now its only swap on ve 190's, or if you can do with out your manifold for 2 days plus postage time i can do yours for you.

    Just finished one side of the lower manifold all there is left to do is sand paper wheel them to tidy them up, they wont be a mirror finish as this can cause power loss they will have a rough finish to promote air circulation.

    I had readings of 181mL/175mL/181mL for the three runners bit more work to do on the middle one to get it the same than over to the other three.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  19. wizeabe

    wizeabe New Member

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    Thanks, I'll eventually take you up on your offer. I'll just have to get my car through a warranty check up this week and depending on how it goes I might be in contact with you in the next two weeks to get it done. Plus I'll need to organise transport for myself as well.

    I'll if I can do a before and after dyno as well.


    Cheers,
    Abe
     
  20. 1989mitty

    1989mitty New Member

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    Sounds good Abe, and thanks for trying to do the dyno mate, I hope there might be some reasonable gains and get some more people on board, do you have the intake spacers? if not let me know and if your keen to do the manifold ill order a set.
     

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