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VE Alloytec Start Up Noise Woes

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by Peter81, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. Peter81

    Peter81 New Member

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    I've got a similar issue to others reported here but as yet unable to find any solid answers other than one user saying replace oil pump.

    My VE makes the same noise as video link and idle drops and comes back a few times within 3-4 seconds all whilst making this sound the whole time (3-4seconds).


    Mine has fresh 5W-30 in it which seemed to decrease the amount it happens, now its like a random cold start draw where most of the time it will do it but sometimes magically it wont.

    No codes shown
    I cant see how checking/cleaning oil pickup will fix as a sludged up or blocked pickup should cause dramas all the time not just start up?
    Oil pump would cause it to throw a code for low pressure would it not?
    Are chain tensioners hydraulic? Its a long shot but seems as though chains are lose and timing goes out a touch at this point on cold start - hence the idle drop and then its comes good.

    Any help would be great as this surely cant be an Alloytec trait we are supposed to live with. I get cringes from people in the carpark when I start up sometimes.

    Pete.
     
  2. ChRiDDa

    ChRiDDa Active Member

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    timing chains

    Very common in early alloytecs - unfortunately not a cheap fix either

    Looking anywhere from 1500 onwards - may find it cheaper depending on how hard you look :)
     
  3. Peter81

    Peter81 New Member

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    Its a 2010 model, I was under the impression the timing chain issues were rectified by this build date?

    Also read a lot of posts where people have had chains done only to still have the noise.

    Ideally I dont want to throw money at hypotheticals :(
     
  4. greenacc

    greenacc Searching for the billion

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    That chattering noise is not normal.
    I've not seen them myself but apparently the tensioners are hydraulic so rely on oil pressure before they tighten up the chain that's why the noise is worse at start up until oil pressure climbs enough to stop the noise.
    A blocked pickup will make all this worse and delay oil pressure at startup.
     
  5. Xplaya

    Xplaya Active Member

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    Can be the tensioners or Guide. But if you are going to go that far you are better off changing the chains as well.
     
  6. ChRiDDa

    ChRiDDa Active Member

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    There is a software update that can be preformed, but I believe that'll only be of use to you if your vehicle is throwing up a fault code

    It was very common for VE's fitted with earlier variants of the alloytec engine to have timing chain issues but unfortunately later models are not immune either
     
  7. Dynamic Dazz

    Dynamic Dazz Member

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    So did I but 12months ago I had the timing chain replaced in my 2012 then last month the engine completely seized requiring a new VF engine
     
  8. Peter81

    Peter81 New Member

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    None of this sounds promising for the motor.

    I can update on when symptoms occur. Recently worked out if nose is pointing downhill (ie driveway or hill when parked) no noises on start up, on flat its hit and miss on when it happens. Nose in the air (ie parked up a driveway or hill nose facing up) it gets a terrible rattle and takes long for it to stop, found the other day on a very steep hill it wouldn't stop and sent it into Check Engine mode on dash.

    Is pickup in the front of the sump by any chance? Almost feel likes quoted engine oil quantities aren't enough and its sucking air??

    Thanks
     
  9. greenacc

    greenacc Searching for the billion

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    Google Alloytec sump for a picture. Pickup will be in the deep area.
    Interesting about the slope changing the noise I'm going to see if mine does the same.
    I assume your oil level is full?
    Some guys have found the o-ring seal between the pickup pipe and engine falls apart and the pickup looses suction, that might be your issue??
     
  10. Peter81

    Peter81 New Member

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    Yes fresh oil and full.
    Be interesting to hear back if yours does similar.
    Think I'll tackle sump off when I get a moment this week - check out this o-ring and also for blockages of pickup.

    Cheers
     
  11. ChRiDDa

    ChRiDDa Active Member

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    Still maintain it's going to be your timing chains

    Over time, the chains stretch - when the vehicle is started, the slack in the chain has to be taken up. Further, the chain tensioners are likely to be worn, contributing to the issue

    Had a mate of mine with a vz sv6 (alloytec) - every time it was started, it would exhibit the same sound as what your vehicle does

    Was diagnosed as timing chains, but he never bothered to have them replaced - engine ended up nuking itself
     
  12. mrstuartinoz

    mrstuartinoz New Member

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    Hi Pete, I've got the same problem I believe, everyone told me its the timing chain as my car has done 234,000kms and its now been changed with a genuine one and the noise is still there and it only does it on the first start each day like yours and it does it most days, mine doesn't seem to want to do it in front of the mechanic though..lol I picked my car up on a Friday after the chain had been replaced and on the saturday it made the noise again so I had to wait until monday to speak to the mechanic again, on the monday morning he came to my house to listen and it didn't make the noise then he came on the Tuesday and it was silent again, I then dropped the car off at his workshop so he could hear it on the Wednesday morning when it was cold and it didn't do hit there either, I have been making a video of the first start every day since and it is doing it every day without fail but it never wants to do it in front of him, it is so strange haha. have a look at the video I made
     
  13. mrstuartinoz

    mrstuartinoz New Member

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    Mine has the same problem everyone was telling me it was the timing chain, well a genuine timing chain kit was put in my car cost me $2000 to have it done and the noise is still there, have a listen to this video. I made [video 2 days after the genuine timing chain kit was put in my car
     
  14. Shaneeex

    Shaneeex New Member

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    If this thread is still going, has anyone found an answer?
    Can confirm its not timing chains.
    I had this noise on my first engine only on startup and only when it was on a incline and sometimes parked flat. The engined ended up having the bottom end gp out.

    Now on my 2nd engine i hear the same noise, went to holden about it they say it was the drive tensioner pulley. $400 later, a complete **** around, the noise came back the next day.

    Now im leaning towards the o-ring om the oil pickup. Anyone changed theres?, and did it help?

    If so any tips into doing so?
     
  15. Fu Manchu

    Fu Manchu Well-Known Member

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    Would suggest a starter motor pinion not quite withdrawing as it should and the gears catching on the flywheel briefly.
     

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