VE BERLINA trade off of VZ

[Scotty_Doesn't_Know]

in the vz, the calais was an exec with luxury and sport...and it still is. it has 5sp, 195kw engine, and sports suspension therefore it is very different to a berlina.

OK... Listen, and READ very carefully. Up until the VZ the Berlina and Calais were the luxury models. They had same engine, same transmission, same suspension, same body styling. The only thing that seperated them were wheels, chrome and luxury items. Take the VX Berlina and Calais for example (and just as an example to prove my point)... The Berlina has the same front and rear end as the Calais and the two were unlike any other VX in styling. They didn't have the teardrop headlights of the Exec, Acclaim, S and SS... REMEMBER?!?! And the tail lights extended across the rear bumper.

Again, the VY came out and the Berlina along with the Calais had front driving lights and same front styling. Also the rear end with the round indicator and reverse lights unlike the other "functional" models and S, SS that had the jigsaw setup for tail lights.

The differences until the new alloytec engines came out were subtle and only in luxury features and trim standards (i.e. velour and not the cloth of poverty packs but not leather like the Calais).

DO YOU UNDERSTAND YET??????? (probably not)

The VE Berlina is more on par with the previous model Acclaims than previous model Berlinas because the Berlina has never been in the so called "functional" class. The VE Berlina doesn't even have the triple screen trip computer - even the VS Berlina had the same trip computer as the Calais! The VE Calais is more on par with previous model Berlinas and the VE Calais V is more on par with previous Calais models. I don't care if people say things like "but the Calais has more than the VZ Calais had" because OF COURSE IT BLOODY WELL DOES!!! It's a new model. Just like the VX Calais has more than the VT and the VT has more than the VS etc...

Why else would VE Berlina pricing be around VZ Acclaim pricing and VE Calais pricing has dropped to close to VZ Berlina princing? It is indeed VERY clever marketing on Holden's part.

 

[daveb8]

Up until the VZ the Berlina and Calais were the luxury models. They had same engine, same transmission, same suspension, same body styling. The only thing that seperated them were wheels, chrome and luxury items. Take the VX Berlina and Calais for example (and just as an example to prove my point)... The Berlina has the same front and rear end as the Calais and the two were unlike any other VX in styling.

in the VX example you picked (and the VY) the standard calais was supercharged. so the difference in power has been a consistent point of differentiation between berlina and calais

The VE Berlina is more on par with the previous model Acclaims than previous model Berlinas because the Berlina has never been in the so called "functional" class.

no it hasnt changed. it is being differentiated in exactly the same way it has always been - base package + luxury features

The VE Berlina doesn't even have the triple screen trip computer - even the VS Berlina had the same trip computer as the Calais!

take another look at the pics

The VE Calais is more on par with previous model Berlinas

no it isnt - ve calais is nothing like a vz berlina it has a 190kw, 5sp and sports suspension. how could it be the same? it has performance in it which berlina has never had. ever

the VE Calais V is more on par with previous Calais models. I don't care if people say things like "but the Calais has more than the VZ Calais had" because OF COURSE IT BLOODY WELL DOES!!! It's a new model. Just like the VX Calais has more than the VT and the VT has more than the VS etc...

i dont think so. i dont think the calais v has an equivalent. it is targeted at a segment holden has never targeted before. i believe the calais v is designed to compete with a bmw (http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/1902546.aspx)

Why else would VE Berlina pricing be around VZ Acclaim pricing and VE Calais pricing has dropped to close to VZ Berlina princing? It is indeed VERY clever marketing on Holden's part.

because the vz berlina and calais were overpriced. the vz berlina was almost $8,000 more than the exec! and for what? a few extra features? you didnt even get esp which the acclaim had. it seems to me that holden are making the extra price slightly more proportionate to manufacturing costs because customers thought the berlina was too expensive.

the berlina is where it has always been. do you really think the gap between the base and berlina has really changed? the difference between the berlina and calais has grown--slightly--but the difference between base and berlina? i dont think that has changed. i think the berlina is still being aimed at the same segment it has always been aimed at

please also note how i do not attempt to belittle you in my argument with caps lock and repeated question marks and exclamations marks

 

[Rombles]

I think this argument is a bit like the old TOMARTO/TOMAYTO gag.... We can all agree that the Berlina sits somewhere between the entry model and the Calais. This is fact. Holden must consider it to be the entry-level luxury model, as they have put it in the same brochure as the Calais and Calais V.

I would suggest that the VE Omega is closer in spec to the VZ Acclaim than the VZ Executive - and the model change here could actually be described as Omega = Acclaim, no more Executive. This allows the VE Berlina to sit exactly where it did in the VZ - between the Acclaim/Omega and the Calais. I agree that there has been some shifty marketing with the other name changes (SS = SV8) but if it works, good luck to Holden. (Face it, good luck to Holden anyway! I love 'em!)

Whether the Berlina is closer to this model or that doesn't really matter. People need to look at what is included in the car, and buy the one which closest matches their needs. If they walk into the showroom and buy a VE Berlina because they had a VY or VZ Berlina, are they getting a better car than they had before? Of course they are. And if they do their research and find out what is in the VE Calais for about the same price as they paid for their VY/Z Berlina, they might get a pleasant surprise! Also I can't imagine that anyone will walk into a dealer and say "I have a VZ Acclaim, and want to trade up to a VE Acclaim" and then walk out in disgust because it doesn't exist.

Us arguing the semantics of what the model used to be closer to and what it is now closer to isn't really going to affect the number sold of any particular model....

 

[Scotty_Doesn't_Know]

Yeah you're right Rombles...

Enough from me - besides, I know I'm right anyway. I'm not being narrow minded and ignorant and only looking back to the VZ.

 

[Rombles]

....On the Vn/VP Berlina comment, my comparisons weren't going back that far! I was comparing the VT-VZ Berlina with the new VE line up. .....

No, you're being narrow minded and ignorant and only looking back to the VT-VZ!

 

[naf33n]

who cares anyways take the ve for what the ve has got not what a vl calais options where or wat vt berlina had.

the berlina is still not in the commodre group anyway, still on its own with the calais so holden is still trying to market it in the same postion

 

[Scotty_Doesn't_Know]

No, you're being narrow minded and ignorant and only looking back to the VT-VZ!

Actually I mentioned VS as well...

 

[392RWkwSS]

Functionality group? WTF? Mate the berlina has always been the entry level luxury model for Holden. Why do you think that until the VE it shared it's looks with the Calais? It's had climate control, power windows, triple window trip computer, velour (not just cloth) seats.

Functionality? Yeah sure! It used to function nicely as a base model luxury sedan. Now it's just an Omega with chrome bit and a crappy looking piece of woodgrain.

mate open your eyes and READ. or have you been living with your head in the sand? beacuase if you have then you have an excuse. holden has split their commodore range into 3 based on the cars interior. Functionality- Omega and Berlina, Sport-SV6, SS and SS-V and Luxury- Calais and Calais-V.

 

[Scotty_Doesn't_Know]

mate open your eyes and READ. or have you been living with your head in the sand? beacuase if you have then you have an excuse. holden has split their commodore range into 3 based on the cars interior. Functionality- Omega and Berlina, Sport-SV6, SS and SS-V and Luxury- Calais and Calais-V.

Yes I know that - VERY clever marketing... As I have said though, the current VE model range doesn't line up with the previous VZ namesakes. Not going to go into it for the slow people AGAIN as I've already said it more than once!

 

[blackahcdx]

Think what u what u want to think and others can think what they want to think.


But i still think that VE Berlina is pretty much the same as Berlina has always been.

So what, it doesn't have fuddy duddy olde man grandpa velour seats, or projector beam headlights. But then again the price is $4000 cheaper.

Same with the Calais


Stop ur whinging