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VE commodore alternator whine

Skylarking

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@vc commodore, the following was stated in the first post
I go back to them saying there is engine noise but they are blaming other things .... They said they pulled out my deck and the noise is still happening.
So it seems the installer did try to fix it unless OP was told porkies.

I do get that you thought OP wasn’t treated well and your comments were more related to how to prove a “he said she said“ situation, which is rather difficult situation.

Sadly, in civil cases, all things being equal, a judge still has to make a decision and evidence doesn’t have to be concrete, just reasonable in the context and sometimes it may come down to who is more believable to the judge. I’m sure there have been cases where an effective liar (who wasn’t caught out in his lie) would win over someone who was telling the truth in a less articulated way... Its sad but it’s just the way of the world... I’d never advocate one lie in court, it really ain’t a good idea.
 

vc commodore

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@vc commodore, the following was stated in the first post
So it seems the installer did try to fix it unless OP was told porkies.

I do get that you thought OP wasn’t treated well and your comments were more related to how to prove a “he said she said“ situation, which is rather difficult situation.

Sadly, in civil cases, all things being equal, a judge still has to make a decision and evidence doesn’t have to be concrete, just reasonable in the context and sometimes it may come down to who is more believable to the judge. I’m sure there have been cases where an effective liar (who wasn’t caught out in his lie) would win over someone who was telling the truth in a less articulated way... Its sad but it’s just the way of the world... I’d never advocate one lie in court, it really ain’t a good idea.

Having been involved in a civil case, I can assure you you still need some form of concrete proof....All I read is a he said she said scenario....

If it was as simple as he said she said and no concrete proof, every person that had a little gripe with a business would be in the court room.
 
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Skylarking

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@vc commodore, the issue is about a quality sound system install where the end result is hum... Whether hum was preexisting isn’t really relevant as a professional installer would have resolved the issue during the install process. The expectation of any owner who gets such a professional install service is that they can enjoy the improved sound of the new system.

The fact is the new system now hums with engine rpms. The installer‘s acceptance of this defect is also a fact as the installer took out the newly installed head unit to check their wiring, yet still couldn't fix the defect.

It has no real bearing whether the previous system had hum or not prior to the professional installer getting his hands on the car. He accepted the job and accepted the condition of the system he had to work with... The only real issue is who supplied the head unit and whether the installer can blame the head unit for the hum...

The problem I have is with your terminology that concrete proof is required. In criminal cases, this obligation to prove what is alleged rests on the prosecution, which must prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. In civil cases, it rests on the applicant, who must prove their case on the balance of probabilities. I see concrete proof as behind doubt wiphich isn’t required (but always helpful if you have such)...

In this case the fact the installer tried to fix the issue strongly infers an acceptance of the defect by the installer. Such an acceptance of the defect is rather difficult to counter when the new system hums with rpm... About the only hope is if the installer can reasonably blame the hum on a defective head unit which he may not have supplied... If he did supply the head unit and speakers, then he’s in the dog house.

Put another way, if I go to an installer with a car having no head unit with wiring ripped out due to head unit theft, and pay for install of a new sound system, any hum would be the installers responsibility to fix. Previous condition isn’t relevant as they accepted the condition once they started their task (or when they quoted the job if they inspected the car at that time)...

As is, this case isn’t so much a he said she said as you seem to think... And yes, businesses can be taken to small claims court for anything, even something more resembling a he said she said. and in such cases, if the judge sees the business representative as a slimy eel who can’t lie straight, the judge may find the aggrieved customer to be more believable and thus find in their favour... Sometimes people’s attitude work against themselves and the balance of probabilities can bite people in the butt...

NCAT rulings are probably the easiest accessible rulings of any state and make rather interesting reading for those that are interested in the workings of civil small claims... Often within a ruling the judge makes comment about peoples (applicants, respondent, witnesses, etc) believability and why they rule for or against them on that basis... So where concrete proof may be lacking, other factors can have a bearing on the outcome... but like anything, ones mileage may vary as some other side identical cases and facts seem to end up with different outcomes...

Obviously the first port of call would be the business one is having issues with and in such cases knowledge is always helpful... In this case, knowledge of hum and what causes it and how to resolve it would be helpful and likely lead to a simple solution which can be done on ones own... but this defeated the purpose of getting a professional install... what an irony life can be :p:p
 

vc commodore

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@vc commodore, the issue is about a quality sound system install where the end result is hum... Whether hum was preexisting isn’t really relevant as a professional installer would have resolved the issue during the install process. The expectation of any owner who gets such a professional install service is that they can enjoy the improved sound of the new system.

The fact is the new system now hums with engine rpms. The installer‘s acceptance of this defect is also a fact as the installer took out the newly installed head unit to check their wiring, yet still couldn't fix the defect.

It has no real bearing whether the previous system had hum or not prior to the professional installer getting his hands on the car. He accepted the job and accepted the condition of the system he had to work with... The only real issue is who supplied the head unit and whether the installer can blame the head unit for the hum...

The problem I have is with your terminology that concrete proof is required. In criminal cases, this obligation to prove what is alleged rests on the prosecution, which must prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. In civil cases, it rests on the applicant, who must prove their case on the balance of probabilities. I see concrete proof as behind doubt wiphich isn’t required (but always helpful if you have such)...

In this case the fact the installer tried to fix the issue strongly infers an acceptance of the defect by the installer. Such an acceptance of the defect is rather difficult to counter when the new system hums with rpm... About the only hope is if the installer can reasonably blame the hum on a defective head unit which he may not have supplied... If he did supply the head unit and speakers, then he’s in the dog house.

Put another way, if I go to an installer with a car having no head unit with wiring ripped out due to head unit theft, and pay for install of a new sound system, any hum would be the installers responsibility to fix. Previous condition isn’t relevant as they accepted the condition once they started their task (or when they quoted the job if they inspected the car at that time)...

As is, this case isn’t so much a he said she said as you seem to think... And yes, businesses can be taken to small claims court for anything, even something more resembling a he said she said. and in such cases, if the judge sees the business representative as a slimy eel who can’t lie straight, the judge may find the aggrieved customer to be more believable and thus find in their favour... Sometimes people’s attitude work against themselves and the balance of probabilities can bite people in the butt...

NCAT rulings are probably the easiest accessible rulings of any state and make rather interesting reading for those that are interested in the workings of civil small claims... Often within a ruling the judge makes comment about peoples (applicants, respondent, witnesses, etc) believability and why they rule for or against them on that basis... So where concrete proof may be lacking, other factors can have a bearing on the outcome... but like anything, ones mileage may vary as some other side identical cases and facts seem to end up with different outcomes...

Obviously the first port of call would be the business one is having issues with and in such cases knowledge is always helpful... In this case, knowledge of hum and what causes it and how to resolve it would be helpful and likely lead to a simple solution which can be done on ones own... but this defeated the purpose of getting a professional install... what an irony life can be :p:p

Firstly we don't know whether the place mentioned a price to fix the issue and whether the OP declined the offer to fix it....Looking at the original posting seems like the OP is curious whether the issues are related to a couple of engine items as the place claimed or is he getting bull dusted to....

2ndly proof...Who cares what court you are appearing in...You still need proof....You just can't turn up in a court room and say it wasn't happening before or it wasn't damaged before without having something to back up those claims....And the back up for those claims is called proof....If you didn't need proof every business would get screwed over by dodgy people and end up bankrupt....

So as I have said all along, from what I have read it's a he said she said scenario, unless there is some proof to prove differently...And that proof would be a dash cam with audio capabilities...I can also see that the place in question has some other proof, where by they have said it is certain things and the OP is asking whether it can be those items to help rebuff those claims
 
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