Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

VE Sportwagon + KPM Exhaust Drone

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by unitdiplomacy, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. bennypage

    bennypage Member

    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    VE S2 SS Sportwagon
    Throw away AFM. From what Walkinshaw told me, you cannot have AFM and cat back in a wagon due to likely hood of drone. I had mine tuned out and it's great. That being said, this from experience on their exhaust systems which are Perry exhausts from memory.
     
  2. SSV Redline

    SSV Redline You Ride I Ride

    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VE Series II SSV Redline Sportwagon
    Cool option Blackie, but isnt mafless tuning in a VE illegal?
     
  3. unitdiplomacy

    unitdiplomacy New Member

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Location:
    Canberra
    Members Ride:
    2010 CalaisV Sportwagon V8 Auto
    That's what I thought, because it doesnt comply to ADR regulations etc... Looking for a MAF tune option.
     
  4. BLACK-VE

    BLACK-VE Active Member

    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Members Ride:
    VF2 SS, VE SS ute 360rwkws daily VE LPG
    OZ track will do a maf tune if you want, but any otr is illegal aswell so it's up to you how far you go. Your KPM is probally over the noise level 2
     
  5. jneil

    jneil New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    '10 Alto SSVeII Redline M6
    Mine isn't a 2.5" or an auto or a wagon for that matter...but all this talk of the KPM that doesn't drone is not what i've experienced!

    My 1 & 3/4 ceramic headered 3" KPM system drones quite badly at times that I have to knock it back from 6th at 112km/h to 5th to get it out of the 1500-2000rpm/drone range. Unfortunately I haven't been in anyone elses car who say that it "doesn't drone".

    It is booked in tomorrow to have the installer have a look at it after several thousand km for it to "settle". I don't think it made squat of difference to the note! Then again i'm using e85 so there isn't much in the way of carbon buildup!

    It obviously doesn't drone if you mash the peddal all the time, but ease into the 1500-2000rpm range and just cruise at a constant speed on different roads and it drones!

    I think the term "drone" means different things to different people, some even like it but most can't stand it...a constant boomy/echoy noise that fills the cabin is what I call drone.

    I will make a video one day...if I get some bloody time!!

    Jeff.
     
  6. 3onTree

    3onTree Donating Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    SSV Redline Sportswagon
    Droning observations

    With only 550km on the clock, my SSV Redline went in for the Walkinshaw Pack. Could not imagine driving an 8 with such a subdued exhaust and weasy intake - result is complete transformation for the better but does change some aspects of driving. On thing I found interesting is how the Walkinshaw guys fit longer tail pipes. I noticed that the KPM tail pipe finished inside the line of the body. That will apparently increase drone.

    photo (10).JPG

    Having said that I experience a great sound track on start up and under acceleration. At around 2k rpm in a high gear I hear some drone I do not like. At cruising speeds there is no drone at all, seems when the auto is shifting in standard mode it likes to hold a taller gear since the torque can carry the car at low rpm / speed. The sound however under such conditions is not good - to be polite. I now always flick over to sport shift and the car downshifts and doesn't hang around that tall gear low rpm zone. Interesting that the bi-modal exhausts from Walkinshaw run the exhaust gases through the mufflers around 2-4k rpm and open up after and at idle.
     
  7. HEXEM

    HEXEM Member

    Messages:
    827
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Location:
    ACT
    Members Ride:
    VE II SV6
    hmm... I was sure you could have the AFM deactivated without the need to remove the MAF. Also you can fit a VCM OTR (that has the MAF adapter) without tuning.
    Agreed you will get some performance benifits from removing the MAF sensor. With all the dyno vids I've seen there is not a lot of difference in power figures. Infact some have had issues removing the MAF and getting the car to run properly (don't ask me why - maybe user error).

    I would give Steve from Oztrack a call, it would be sorted realy quickly. Alternatively you could call Autotech Services in Hume and ask for Ed, they too are a VCM products provider in the ACT.

    Cheers
    Phil
     
  8. showxpony

    showxpony New Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Members Ride:
    Redline SSV
    You can deactivate afm without a mafless tune. When I got my kpm exhaust installed, gary from chevs asked if I wanted mine switched off - a matter of using tech ii and choosing the disabled option.
     
  9. glennho

    glennho Member

    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Location:
    PERTH ,Darch WA
    Members Ride:
    2006 VE SS
    get some helmholts resinators or j pipes put on your tailpipe around your mufflers. they do this alot in the states to the G 8 PONTIACS. they work as i have them on my car with no rear mufflers.
     
  10. WogBoyz

    WogBoyz 435rkw/590rwhp

    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Location:
    Cairns, Qld
    Members Ride:
    08 VE SSV M6 Ute
    my full 3 kpm on the ute anyway goes a tad futher then the body, even with a big cam and full bolt ons pretty much doesnt droan
     
  11. vesportswagon1969

    vesportswagon1969 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Location:
    penrith
    Members Ride:
    sportswagon
    NO DRONE yes you can get a no drone system at Penrith and they still sound awesome, They custom make them there, and they have a SSV Sportswagon there with AFM and they will start it up and let you listen and then drive it so you can here it for yourself, Thats what won me over, I had brought too systems until i went there and i was un happy then i brought theres and me and my wife love it ' No Arguments" how good, its in Coreen Ave Penrith A1 Exhaust, Ask for the custom one thet have on there car, And its got stainless Mufflers and its only $900.00 so cheap with tips too. you wont be sorry its worth the drive i think the guy you should speak to is mark ? there is about 5 guys there but hes the best.
     
  12. Quicksilver

    Quicksilver Member

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Location:
    Perth
    Members Ride:
    VE SSV
    Just got the exhaust done on my AFM SSV. The drone is insane in 4cyl mode.... Anyone know a place in Perth where I can get it disabled? Thanks.
     
  13. musicman

    musicman New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Location:
    Horsham
    Members Ride:
    Commodore VE SS Sportswagon
    Hi,

    I have a SSV VE Series 2 2011 Sportswagon. I took it to KPM in Adeliade and got an OTR, headers, computer chip and 2.5 inch exhaust as part of a power package. It now has 367kw at the fly wheel and 280 at the rear wheels. I am so happy. They took the AFM off because it sounds crap with the exhaust, may cause some drone and doesnt make much difference anyway. It went from 9.8L per 100K to 10.2L with an average speed of 100km per hour. Of course, if you hammer it goes through the juice. Overall, cant recommend KPM enough. Yeah sure they are expensive but if you want great results, no drone and a heap more power, they are the ones to talk to.
     
  14. Not_An_Abba_Fan

    Not_An_Abba_Fan Exhaust Guru

    Messages:
    13,813
    Likes Received:
    421
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Location:
    Bunbury, WA
    Members Ride:
    Strange Rover
    First post so we will forgive the thread dig.

    How do they know it's 367kW at the flywheel? Did you remove the engine and have it dynoed?
     
  15. SSVSE

    SSVSE New Member

    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Location:
    nsw country
    Members Ride:
    my10 SSV SE L76
    Try fitting a set of axle back J-Pipes ,they produce a nice v8 note are very good at killing drone. AFM on is not problem with these.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  16. BehaveSS

    BehaveSS Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    2011 HSV E3 Tourer
    Sorry for digging up old thread, I was doing a search on Drone and came across this one.

    I have some info to share from my previous experience at Holden, some of you may know about it, it's a really simple concept, cheap too.

    Drone is a resonant frequency that unfortunately is aligned with a particular excitation frequency, such as engine firing order or power train or even roughness of road to a lesser extent. If the input frequency happens to be near or aligned with the resonant frequency of anything, that thing is going to be extremely excited and shake/vibrate a lot more than the input energy. If the resonant frequency is quickly surpassed, not many people will notice it or complain about it. But the issue is when it's close to a typical road speed / engine speed... like 60km/ 80km/ 100km/ etc...

    An easy way to combat this is to move the resonant frequency higher or lower, there's 2 variables, Stiffness of the system or Mass of the system. it's much harder to change the stiffness of your Exhaust unless you're willing to add stiffening bars etc... so the easiest is the add mass. Adding mass will reduce the resonant freq. So keep that in mind, you won't get rid of your drone, you're shifting it. if you shift it low enough, e.g. below the idle speed of your engine, it will appear as though it's gone all together.

    Exactly how much mass and where to add is hard to explain as we used equipment to find exactly the spot and exactly the mass... but it can be done by trial and error if you have the time. Jack the car up safely on jack stands, while car is in neutral bring the rpm to the usual drone rpm, get under the car, hold a metal pipe/screw driver/rod whatever that's stiff so your hands will feel the vibrations from the exhaust pipe, move along the exhaust pipe with your metal stick, and subjectively note the location of the MOST vibrations, Mark that location and then get some Metal Ring clips and test with add some weights, step it slowly by 250g or whatever you can find, until the drone has changed. sometimes there are multiple locations... the same process can be repeated.
     
  17. Not_An_Abba_Fan

    Not_An_Abba_Fan Exhaust Guru

    Messages:
    13,813
    Likes Received:
    421
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Location:
    Bunbury, WA
    Members Ride:
    Strange Rover
    Above test is flawed as it will only induce a vibration on the exhaust while free revving. The vibrations under load are in a different frequency range so you will not find the drone that is experienced under load.

    The other way would be to fit a decent system that has been researched and tested not to drone. Manta is one such system. They make one of the very few on the market that doesn't drone on the VE auto wagon.
     
  18. BehaveSS

    BehaveSS Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2013
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    2011 HSV E3 Tourer
    Firstly, I have no bias towards any brand, I believe every brand will have it's perks and flaws, there is no perfect system that meets everyone's needs.

    Let's clarify the science a bit Frequency, amplitude and harmonics..... Free revving and under load will produce the same frequency but different amplitudes through out the frequency range, and under load will show the higher order harmonics more so than Free Revving. Usually solving the issue for the 1st and 2nd Harmonic will achieve a pretty good result and you won't have to worry about the higher. I agree, the DIY method I described is not perfect, I don't claim it to be. It's a method for enthusiasts and DIYer who want to play around themselves and immediately see results. Well if the reader isn't this type, it's okay, just ignore this post. This post is meant for those who like this info.



    What I shared is a simplified procedure where we at Holden use accelerometer and data logger. Just trying to help those who want to try for themselves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  19. RockDAhouse

    RockDAhouse Member

    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    VF SSV
    Anyone knows where I can get the capped helmholtz done to the exhaust in Sydney? Called few places and they have no idea what I'm talking about.
     
  20. ducker85

    ducker85 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,666
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Location:
    Narnia
    Members Ride:
    09 VE clubbie R8
    eBay.......
     

Share This Page