ve ss suspension upgrade

[gslrallysport]

Yeh every car i've owned it has been a much better and cheaper idea to go a spring/shock combination along with a dampner, caster kit and sway bars over cheap coilovers. And im guessing gslrallysport have plenty of research behind them to, but decent coilovers are always going to cost over $3,000 comfortably from what i've seen in the past.

Spot on.

If you want coilovers go for something like DMS, Ohlins, Bilstein, Koni, Reigers, etc. or if you have to, even Tein, for the dollars, aren't too bad. It's a pitty Fulcrum don't import the decent, high end Tein, but the cheap shitty street stuff isn't too shabby. Our preference is DMS, because they're locally made, which means local revalving and servicing. They're also exported to the world, and have won a couple of recent Rally America National Championships.

 

[MattSAU2XR8]

Hi guys, new to Just Commodores, coming from an AU XR8 as per my sig.


Hope no-one minds me referencing an old thread, I'm hoping it can be developed a little further.


In short I've just bought myself a grandpa VE SS in Ignition with 40 kkms and have a bit of a vision for a cut price (almost) Clubsport project.


Car already has:

- MACE pod filter intake which I'm going to heat shield/wrap, including boxing in the left front corner above and below the rail with plastic sheet (recycling crate)

- 2.5 inch stainless straight through cat-back with x-pipe in midsection (where I'm planning to return the rear mufflers to standard as too loud)


Car will probably also end up with:

- A tune, assuming the tuner thinks there is something he can improve, hopefully bringing the engine up to around 290 honest KWs, so about 230 to 235 at the rears

- HSV or Redline wheels

- Brembo front brakes

- A mild suspension upgrade, which is the point of this thread


What I really want to do is get the car handling a fair bit better than standard without spending a lot of money, therefore:

- Coilovers not an option as dearer than Bilsteins and springs

- Doesn’t really need to be adjustable, just well set up in the first place

- Not interested in lowering if it means I need camber kids etc.., unless a small drop, eg. 1 to 2 cm could make it handle HEAPS better…

- Shock upgrade where I’m probably leaning toward Koni Yellow which won’t raise it either, as opposed to Bilsteins which would probably mean I need new springs or to trim them back a bit with the grinder

- Wondering if I can get away with Koni front and KYB rear as per PIR4TE who used to post on here, if fronts make more difference than rears

- Something to dial out a bit of understeer, either a slightly thicker rear sway bar, eg. 20 mm, or slightly stiffer rear springs with same height as previous, springs obviously being cheaper…

- Probably also change all 4 sway bar bushes to Nolathane for a little more roll stiffness since hopefully bars can’t move about as much


Would be interested if anyone has done something similar, or has any thoughts on the above.


Thanks,


Matt

 

[_R_J_K_]

- Coilovers not an option as dearer than Bilsteins and springs

I would seriously have a think about extending your budget to a set of MCA coilovers. They're made in Queensland by the same people who make the suspension for the leading World Time Attack Challenge car. They can be made and valved (with shock adjustability) and correct spring rates to your needs, so if you want comfort or tarmac stuff they can do either and will tailor it to what you want (they've done a lot of R&D on each of the models of car they provide for). They're really good value for the quality of the stuff they make. You'd be looking at $1.5 to 2k depending on what you get, but considering cheap ones like BCs are 1200 or 1300 they're quite reasonably priced in the grand scheme. They're really good for technical questions and setup advice too.

Going KYB and Koni's is all well and good, but you don't really have the ability to choose spring rates (not any off the shelf ones anyway) and the shocks may be mismatched front to back.

 

[Sean880]

I would talk to the guys at Brakes Direct in BNE (who are not far from you - google them ) about what you want to achieve and they will give you some options to suit your needs and budget. They know what works and does not work on VE/Vfs and will more than likely point you in the direction of bilstein strut inserts and bilstein rear dampers together with a new set of optimal compatible springs to start with. You cannot go wrong with Bilstein in a VE/VF.

Don't overspend on your 10 yo VE because you won't see that cash back when you want to sell it.

 

[MattSAU2XR8]

Thanks for the advice so far guys - keep it coming

I hear what you're saying about not overspending - easy to do when buying an older car for what seems like a lot less than a new one – end up getting parts depreciation rather than car depreciation…

On the topic of saving money I’d be particularly interested to hear from anyone who’s used KYB shocks with standard FE2 springs – obviously won’t be as good as Koni or Bilstein but paired with a 20 mm rear swaybar the whole lot would come in under $700…

Whatever I end up doing I'll report back here on the outcome...

 

[Rigggs]

I would seriously have a think about extending your budget to a set of MCA coilovers. They're made in Queensland by the same people who make the suspension for the leading World Time Attack Challenge car. They can be made and valved (with shock adjustability) and correct spring rates to your needs, so if you want comfort or tarmac stuff they can do either and will tailor it to what you want (they've done a lot of R&D on each of the models of car they provide for). They're really good value for the quality of the stuff they make. You'd be looking at $1.5 to 2k depending on what you get, but considering cheap ones like BCs are 1200 or 1300 they're quite reasonably priced in the grand scheme. They're really good for technical questions and setup advice too.

Going KYB and Koni's is all well and good, but you don't really have the ability to choose spring rates (not any off the shelf ones anyway) and the shocks may be mismatched front to back.

100% Agree with this, I had Bilsteins and Lovells. Was ok. But coming from Jap cars it wasn't even close to what I wanted.

Then fitted some MCA Purples and the car had a massive improvement in handling and feel. Went further and did Superpro diff, & subframe bushes. The car has transformed. Eventually all the bushes will be replaced with HD units.

Also after extensive discussions with Josh at MCA I opted out of upgrading the swaybars. They tune the valving in the struts to not require sway bars. Having stiffer sways combined with the coilovers will likely cause the car to skip sideways more instead of loading the tyre properly. I still may try it however. As it sits now it is very planted, and biased to over steer. No axle tramp and if I'm not ham fisted can power through a corner pretty quick without massively breaking traction. (have 550hp)

 

[monstar]

A tune, assuming the tuner thinks there is something he can improve, hopefully bringing the engine up to around 290 honest KWs, so about 230 to 235 at the rears
- HSV or Redline wheels
- Brembo front brakes

Spot on with tune target, if you are going to cane it around a track then upper valve train overhaul / cam swap is prudent on 11 yo car with known weak points. HSV headers will get you to 240 cheaply, designed for this actually.
VF Redline S1 forged wheels are a huge improvement to handling, more affordable better with 19s for this stuff too.
Speak to GSL about dba 5000 series clubsport, which are way better than 4000 series. Together with above rims saves 3kg per corner unsprung rotational. If too rich then no need for T3 marks even, just 4000 series and you save hundreds.

I want to get the car handling a fair bit better than standard without spending a lot of money, therefore:
- Shock upgrade where I’m probably leaning toward Koni Yellow which won’t raise it either, as opposed to Bilsteins which would probably mean I need new springs or to trim them back a bit with the grinder
- Wondering if I can get away with Koni front and KYB rear as per PIR4TE who used to post on here, if fronts make more difference than rears
- Something to dial out a bit of understeer, either a slightly thicker rear sway bar, eg. 20 mm, or slightly stiffer rear springs with same height as previous, springs obviously being cheaper…
- Probably also change all 4 sway bar bushes to Nolathane for a little more roll stiffness since hopefully bars can’t move about as much

GSL will sort you out, amidst the upsell a bit to Billies what's the bet, but Matt and Greg will agree FE2 springs are actually very good and I wouldn't have changed if I had my time again. Also Koni/KYB remains best value combo. Staggered Redline rims and a proper race align / corner setup goes a long way before switching 'bars. Fancy rubber, fitted sways come after VVT, upping the CR and ethanol I say!

 

[Mike Litherous]

Personally the best bang for buck suspension upgrade is setup the alignment more aggressively. It’s one of the few cars that the front camber can be adjusted. Not many take advantage of it. If u setup the front for street use with -2deg per side of camber and say 0.4mm per side of toe(in) it will steer into corners much better than factory. Good tyres help imensly also. Combine them both and u are on a winner

 

[_R_J_K_]

There are also kits you can buy that increase the caster slightly too, they use plates or washers to do change the mounting point of the caster rod to the k-frame slightly so the kit isn't overly expensive or hard to fit.

 

[MattSAU2XR8]

Thanks for all the above

Taking advice on board I've decided to limit my stuffing around and cost as best I can...

Koni Yellows installed with stock FE2 springs, half turn from full soft. Amazing difference in ride comfort - the standard FE2 shocks had only done 40 kkms but were harsh as - way too much compression damping, and floaty as - not enough rebound. Car is MUCH nicer to drive now. Rides SOFTER than stock but appears to corner better still. Probably outside wheel can still compress a little but inside one doesn't drop away, so better weight transfer. Would highly recommend this mod.

Only other thing I'd consider doing is slightly firmer springs to flatter out the ride a little more, i.e. more roll stiffness. But unless I could get them pretty cheaply and they didn't drop the car more than 2 cms all round not sure that I'd bother - ride is pleasant now, and plenty of clearance/compliance for speed humps and driveways