VE SS ute on LPG?

[davey g-force]

^^ Somebody decipher that for us please?

 

[commsirac]

Well commsirac I actually seen my installer today and asked him a couple of things now I do have a shocking memory for names but to start with I have found out that his background is he worked as a tech mechanic for and hears the name I don’t remember one of the first company’s to import L.P.G. systems from overseas and went onto work for sprint gas in the development section with a mechanic base now to cut a long story shorter he knows not only how to install the gas systems, map the gas ECU and link it into the car ecu etc etc etc now I did say to him about this thread and the comments posted his response was people who want to believe they know what there talking about wont believe the truth and said to me knot to even bother trying to tell them.
Now as far as what I know I don’t know the figures obviously, the info I have I have got from him mainly I ran past him what I have been saying and im not far off the mark even the theory of butane being a great gas now obviously it is used but propane runs better in a gas driven car and I mean emissions ARE DOWN and I was told by my fitter something else today I didn't know butane carries carbon molecules which find there way into your car cylinders etc and produce carbon monoxide out of your exhaust, now in fork lifts(and I know im jumping so bare with me please as it is directly relevant) they don’t fill them at a bowser because they put propane into there tanks instead why? Because propane reduces carbon monoxide emissions but about 60% so I was told today.
When I turned up at my fitters business there were reps from spintgas there one sales rep one techy (I also told the techy the more energy per litre with auto gas over propane he laughed) the techy was running over there ECU systems with him (over my head) anyway there under bonnet systems there only giving to two businesses were I am the ones who know what there doing with there injected systems as opposed the mechanics who have been tort to fit the systems they want installers who understand the systems now the reason I put this comment forward to give you an idea how switched on this person is.
Now seriously if there is anyone who is thinking of fitting a system to there car and is in central Victoria send me a private message and I will tell you how to contact him, and please take all the negative remarks from here and any you've been told and ask him to give you the run down on the truth but please only if your looking at installing his time is money etc

I dont really know what direction you are going with the ^, what are you challenging?
afaik butane has always been part of the australian lpg gas mix and the emission figures for lpg have always been done using such a mix, not straight propane. Ive no doubt that increasing the level of butane will increase the CO output.......as I mentioned with the domestic systems.
As for your sales rep techhy, cant really comment on their qualifications.....as you havent specified any, however, you cant really argue with facts(whether the techhy knows anything or not).......did you bother to actually look up the heat of combustion for propane and butane?.......please do tell!

Whether the company in mind could get more power out of a straight propane and less emissions is totally possible. Whether they get more km per tank on straight propane than a mix?, Ive heard more evidence that there is no change or the car goes less km on straight propane......but that's just hearsay.

Anyway, still not sure where you are going with all this.......lpg is a cleaner fuel than petrol.....butane produces more CO certainly....how much more after a CAT?.......however, LPG is only marginally better than petrol, it is not the answer to reducing CO2 levels and making it considerably less expensive actually increases the problem..........got it?

Our gas and electricity suppliers have basically got it right atm. Gas is about 1/5 of the price per MJ than electricity......depending on supplier. Why, burning gas in one's home produces about 1/4 of the CO2 compared to obtaining the same amount of energy from coal based electricity.

 

[Libran]

I dont really know what direction you are going with the ^, what are you challenging?
afaik butane has always been part of the australian lpg gas mix and the emission figures for lpg have always been done using such a mix, not straight propane. Ive no doubt that increasing the level of butane will increase the CO output.......as I mentioned with the domestic systems.
As for your sales rep techhy, cant really comment on their qualifications.....as you havent specified any, however, you cant really argue with facts(whether the techhy knows anything or not).......did you bother to actually look up the heat of combustion for propane and butane?.......please do tell!

Firstly I think I might be approaching this wrongly my apologies I will explain what I have been told and I would love to hear your side I don't know the figures as I didn't write them down but propane has a higher heat of combustion, that is I was told the heat produced from combustion is hotter and I was also told that horse power increases with either colder air induction, increased air induction, increased fuel induction, easier breathing and increasing the temperature in the cylinder, so to cut it short I was told you get more power from propane compared to auto mix

Whether the company in mind could get more power out of a straight propane and less emissions is totally possible. Whether they get more km per tank on straight propane than a mix?, Ive heard more evidence that there is no change or the car goes less km on straight propane......but that's just hearsay.

This one all I can say is my last car I started running on auto mix before being told about propane and this is the car I swooped to propane with and what I can tell you is when I swapped to propane I seen a only slight but noticeable increase in throttle response and torque power and also got an extra 35-40km per 60ltr tank

Anyway, still not sure where you are going with all this.......lpg is a cleaner fuel than petrol.....butane produces more CO certainly....how much more after a CAT?.......however, LPG is only marginally better than petrol, it is not the answer to reducing CO2 levels and making it considerably less expensive actually increases the problem..........got it?

I understand what your saying about that people will use gas more frequently but all I can say is I have a lot of km's to travel myself and if I didn't run gas I would be in a lot of trouble with money, me personally I mean, I don’t use my car anymore than I did before I converted it.
Once again this what I’m about to say was told to me and this is about the co2 levels.
The L.P.G. I deal with obviously is propane so I’m going by this, if I can get 40km extra out of the same amount if gas the co2 levels drop accordingly before the cat so I guess what they are trying to tell me is if there is less before the cat there will be even less after the cat?

Our gas and electricity suppliers have basically got it right atm. Gas is about 1/5 of the price per MJ than electricity......depending on supplier. Why, burning gas in one's home produces about 1/4 of the CO2 compared to obtaining the same amount of energy from coal based electricity.

No I meant this in a motor sense that is in a forklift they run straight propane to reduce the carbon monoxide emissions because of the fact that they normally run in a shed so basically in a confined space.

As I implied I’m taking a back foot and instead of being a tool and inflicting my opinion or rather the opinion I’ve been told and believed I would love to hear yours as you can tell I don't know the tech side myself so I’m sticking to what I KNOW as fact and a question I have for anyone out there is the VT I am running I took to my fitter to have its follow up service as it is fairly new now he tells me that "the thing holding gas back is in the ECU anyhow the gas and car ECU interact because these factures change the way gas is delivered" or pretty much that as I understand it and he put an updated program in the gas ECU this was on Tuesday.
Now that’s what I was told now for the actual question part now I have my car back its throttle response and acceleration is not massively greater but noticeably greater than when its running on optimax and also the petrol side of the conversion has never lost power now my gage for this is by driving it now as I said I would love to hear how this is possible, I know this as fact because I drive the proof every day but what I want to know is how is this possible???

I would love to hear the facts on anything I’ve heard or an explanation on what I know as fact PLEASE
My apologies for getting on a high horse in earlier replies
obviously i don't know how to run this site either as some of my questions replys whatever you'd like to call them have ended up in my quote sorry

 

[commsirac]

I didn't write them down but propane has a higher heat of combustion, that is I was told the heat produced from combustion is hotter and I was also told that horse power increases with either colder air induction, increased air induction, increased fuel induction, easier breathing and increasing the temperature in the cylinder, so to cut it short I was told you get more power from propane compared to auto mix

Once again this what I’m about to say was told to me and this is about the co2 levels.
The L.P.G. I deal with obviously is propane so I’m going by this, if I can get 40km extra out of the same amount if gas the co2 levels drop accordingly before the cat so I guess what they are trying to tell me is if there is less before the cat there will be even less after the cat?

.

Either you have misquoted the tecchy, or he doesnt understand the difference between heat and temperature. Heat of combustion for butane is higher than propane per volume of liquefied gas........ There are many reasons as to why the car will run may run better on propane, more energy in the fuel isnt one of them.

Cats dont do anything to CO2, if they did the worlds climate problem would be solved, they only further oxidise CO and convert other nasties.

 

[poweredbycng]

Cats dont do anything to CO2, if they did the worlds climate problem would be solved, they only further oxidise CO and convert other nasties.

A three-way catalytic converter (standard in most cars) will deal with hydrocarbons (HC), carbon monoxide (CO), and nitrogen oxides (NOx). Other pollutants may be lowered too, but the above three (hence "three-way") are the main ones.

Regards,
Dave

 

[AirStrike]

Sorry guys, I totally forgot that I posted here. I don't normally look in the VE forums... :bang:

Have a look at some of the dyno charts here:

Hunter Gas Technologies - LPG conversions for petrol engines

There may also some members of a certain LPG forum that will be able to show you some results, specifically some of the gas fitters.

Also, take a look at this:

SEMA 2007: 1,000 HP ProPane Chevelle by Mothers - Autoblog

Regards,
Dave

Two issues with your dyno graph.
A) We can't see any of the freaking info, which is quite handy. AT, IT, etc for both runs.
B) Is an injected LPG setup a straight fit up, or does the car need to be tuned to run it? Because if it needs to be tuned a 6hp gain is pathetic.

 

[Libran]

G'day commsirac i think the penny has dropped for me after this point(the quote below) you know that U.L.P. or liquid based fuels got left at the door for me??(They were not my focus)

Im not sure what oil from butane clogging up the convertor has got to do has got to do with emissions issue? LPG emissions that are quoted are for a mix, a mix of different alkanes. The figures are not for that of straight propane. Suggest you do some research on butane, its not such a bad thing to be running, it actually has more energy per litre than propane. There is a lot of contradictory info out there, but the only confirmed advantage of straight propane is knowing exactly what is there, whereas the propane/butane mix can vary.....which would require tuning changes and maintaining a higher RON which would be important if you had built yourself a motor with compression ratio > 11:1.

I started talking about two distinct L.P.G. based fuels you knew that??

I do know what L.P.G. means to it is a patrolium based gas fuel under pressure to make it into its liquid state

The two distinct gas based fuels i refered to are
1 Automix
2 Propane
as i said U.L.P. got left at the door and it was between these to gas based fuels that I refered to the techy about

Now i could be wrong but I've only just twigged did you think by automix i ment U.L.P. (unleaded petrol or Liquid based fuels)????????

 

[Libran]

Two issues with your dyno graph.
A) We can't see any of the freaking info, which is quite handy. AT, IT, etc for both runs.
B) Is an injected LPG setup a straight fit up, or does the car need to be tuned to run it? Because if it needs to be tuned a 6hp gain is pathetic.

Sorry matey thanks for those i will look at them as soon as i can im pritty flat out.

Dont know if its in your links but i've been told that the sequential multipoint liquid injection that i have talked about not the vapour type the liquid one IS being produced in Australia right now and is available threw selective fitters (Im not shore who but i can find out if anyone would like) but i would hate to see what it would cost to fit as its also delivered unter pressure threw a gas rail like a petrol rail so its pumped under high pressure etc

 

[Libran]

Two issues with your dyno graph.
A) We can't see any of the freaking info, which is quite handy. AT, IT, etc for both runs.
B) Is an injected LPG setup a straight fit up, or does the car need to be tuned to run it? Because if it needs to be tuned a 6hp gain is pathetic.

G'day mate i dont know much as technical side goes but i run a hope i spell it right landi under bonnet vapour injection and the gas has ito own reprogramable ECU that the car ECU runs threw.
You can change the caricteristics of the gas injection threw the gas ECU without touching the petrol mixes or timing or anything as far as the cars concerned it controls the gas the same was it would control the petrol.

The only variation is threw the gas ECU and the program it runs

Im even running tracksion control when driving on gas

 

[AirStrike]

G'day mate i dont know much as technical side goes but i run a hope i spell it right landi under bonnet vapour injection and the gas has ito own reprogramable ECU that the car ECU runs threw.
You can change the caricteristics of the gas injection threw the gas ECU without touching the petrol mixes or timing or anything as far as the cars concerned it controls the gas the same was it would control the petrol.

The only variation is threw the gas ECU and the program it runs

Im even running tracksion control when driving on gas

So you mean to tell me that you all talk of it being a performance fuel alternative and the vehicle made 6hp more, with a custom tune...........
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: