VE SSV Redline - Cold Start Issues

[scrano]

I'd consider that Tony310864, but I've only just replaced the battery with a brand new one in the last few weeks, and the problem started occurring with the old battery, which is a main reason that I replaced the battery to begin with,and since I've had the new battery installed I've had tested professionally twice, the battery tested as being healthy.

Like I said though, the problem began before I replaced the battery, and it's still happening now, so I don't think that it's got anything to with the battery, but I'm willing to consider anything at this point

Thanks for the suggestion though bcoz I've run out of ideas, and any idea is easy is a good idea at this point in time

 

[Tony310864]

When you had the battery checked did the alternator get checked also to make sure that it is charging at the correct rate?

Tony.

 

[Smashfist]

I rang my local Holden dealer and went over the problem with them, and told them that I had the GM part number, and the software version, and I wanted too know if there had been any sort of firmware update for either the ECU or BCM that might address the issue, because it's my gut feeling that it's the battery drain issue that was effecting certain VE's with ICP controller not closing down properly after 10 minutes of the car being turned off, and they put someone on the phone that said that they'd need the car to determine for themselves if there was an update of any sorts to fix the issue, but what really pissed me off is when they said that they couldn't tell me if there was any sort of software update at all, even though I had all of the relevant information that they needed, and they said that regardless of whether it's a factory issue or not, that I'd at the very least be up for approximately $115 for an hour of shop labour, just so they could put it on their own scan tool, and then I could be up for whatever other charges that they deem necessary on top of that, and when I questioned whether I'd need to pay for shop labour if it's a recall to fix an issue that they had, the answer was that I'd at least be up for shop labour, and that still may not find the problem.

There isn't a "list" of what's up to date and what isn't. The only way to tell 100% is to plug in the Tech2 and attempt an update (it will then tell you what, if any updates are there for that VIN). The dealer can't help you if the car isn't in their workshop, and yes you would have to pay for that (it costs the dealer money to look at the car). As for "recalls", if there's a recall then no you won't pay for that, but there won't be any recalls for that type of issue IIRC. Take it in, get the software updated in the ECM, BCM and IPC, pay the hour's labour it will actually take and see how it goes.

 

[scrano]

There isn't a "list" of what's up to date and what isn't. The only way to tell 100% is to plug in the Tech2 and attempt an update (it will then tell you what, if any updates are there for that VIN). The dealer can't help you if the car isn't in their workshop, and yes you would have to pay for that (it costs the dealer money to look at the car). As for "recalls", if there's a recall then no you won't pay for that, but there won't be any recalls for that type of issue IIRC. Take it in, get the software updated in the ECM, BCM and IPC, pay the hour's labour it will actually take and see how it goes.

OK mate, I'll take you at your word and see what happens when I take it into the dealer, and have them scan it, but I still can't work out why my mechanic hasn't been able to find a tripped error code both times he's had the scan tool on it, and this a mechanic that actually owns a VE SSV himself, and does a lot of work on people with Commodores, so he knows his stuff, and we used to occupy the premises next door to his workshop, so I've seen him pick up on some really obscure stuff that others have missed, and he even put the scan tool on it when it cold started in the workshop overnight and saw it himself, he was even perplexed, but maybe it is a software issue that only a Holden dealership can fix.

I can't even book it in before Christmas anyways, bcoz apparently they're booked out through til then, so I'm just hoping that either the battery doesn't die, or that this issue will improve in the meantime, but there's nothing I can really do until they're able to book it in

Thanks Smashfist

 

[Nitro_X]

There isn't a "list" of what's up to date and what isn't. The only way to tell 100% is to plug in the Tech2 and attempt an update (it will then tell you what, if any updates are there for that VIN). The dealer can't help you if the car isn't in their workshop, ....

That's interesting.
I guess I wrongly assumed they would/could advise when provided with the software version installed in the vehicle and its VIN.
**But I also mentioned they may be protective of this information and essentially limit what information they provide 'over the counter' to the general public.

The reason I think they could (theoretically) provide this info, is because the tech 2 scan tool is only as good as the data loaded into it.
As each model and production units roll out and time and on-road faults emerge, Holden engineers would evaluate and release data information and software updates accordingly, any software updates would need to be downloaded by the workshop and loaded into their scan tool.

Wouldn't Holden engineers also release technical data sheets describing the changes/updates for the workshop techs to reference, which may also provide applicable software version changes for vehicle production numbers and vehicle models etc?

 

[Smashfist]

That's interesting.
I guess I wrongly assumed they would/could advise when provided with the software version installed in the vehicle and its VIN.

Yeah Holden's system can't determine calibration #'s and what not until you actually do plug into the car. Software packages are now all done by VIN so when an update comes out for "MY12" Commodore for example, it may not suit all MY12's so to check the system interrogates the BCM for a list of RPO (regular production option) codes to determine what software packages are suitable.

**But I also mentioned they may be protective of this information and essentially limit what information they provide 'over the counter' to the general public.

This is true as well for two reasons:

a) Holden's dealer agreement states that dealers are not to release "confidential GM information" to the public. Dealers can have their dealer agreement revoked for releasing the wrong info.
b) It costs a mint to have the facilities to access and interpret Holden's info - it costs us ~$5k per terminal (laptop/MDI etc) + a yearly access fee + mandatory technician training (which can get close to 5 figures per tech assuming gold level and all courses are done). As much as a lot of people don't like it, there has to be a return on investment or there simply won't be any dealers.

Wouldn't Holden engineers also release technical data sheets describing the changes/updates for the workshop techs to reference, which may also provide applicable software version changes for vehicle production numbers and vehicle models etc?

There are tech bulletins but not all of them are applicable to all build ranges for the reasons above. 99% of anything you can do electrically now as a dealership requires you to actually be plugged into the car.

As for the OP, have you got any accessories fitted to the car? I've seen some really whacky **** cause battery drains and starting issues - best one I've seen is a dashcam wired into the interior light circuit that caused a current draw on that circuit - which in turn caused the BCM to stay awake and the battery to run down.

 

[Nitro_X]

Thanks for that info, Smashfist. Very helpful.

.

 

[scrano]

Just a quick update, the car is still doing the same thing, and I somehow think it's software related, bcoz I started it a few days ago in engineering mode, and the battery charge was only reading at 47%, so I turned it off bcoz I just wanted to see what it did after a couple of days of sitting idle not being driven or anything, and yesterday I go out to start it, and I start it in engineering mode, and it does its bit of a splutter (so it seems like that 2 hour drive was only a temporary fix, where it allowed it to start normally for a couple of days, but after that it just returned to the same behavior), anyways when I started it in engineering mode, the battery charge is reading at over 99%, which is crazy bcoz it hadn't been driven for a couple of days, and the last time it was only started and turned off, and the charge level was reading at 47%, so there's something really wacky going on there.

As for aftermarket accessories Smashfist, I've only got 2, and both were fitted by the Holden dealership at the time the car was originally set up for the manager, and that's an X Force stainless exhaust system, and the other is a kill switch which you can enable and disable and completely bypass it if you want to, and I've tried it with the kill switch enabled, and with it bypassed, and I'm still getting the same behavior, regardless of what I do, and like I was saying the Holden dealership had both of those items fitted themselves, so I wouldn't think that either would be the culprit, it seems more like a software issue, or a sensor not reading the battery charge level correctly, or something like that, but who knows.

I've booked it into the local Holden dealer on the 30th of this month, so hopefully they're able to sort it out

 

[PNR51]

Hi all. I'd be very interested in the result as my veII ss sportswagon is doing the exact same thing. It has only started doing it recently now that the car sits in the garage unused for long spurts (sometimes 2 weeks). Its only ever first start after sitting overnight (sometimes if sitting at work for 8 hours it has a slight hesitation on start), every other start is perfect. Im leaning towards battery due to it sitting. Battery charge is only 60% and with engine off voltage is around 11.6v (when running 14.3v). I drove it yesterday for an hour straight then returned home for another hour and charge only went up to 68%. Figured you could connect a battery pack in parallel and see what the charge and voltage reading are then? Strange how the battery could cause this as it has no problems cranking, and you can aloso shut it straight down after its splutter start and re start and its fine?

 

[scrano]

Hi PNR51, I can tell you that I took it to the local Holden dealership on the 29th, and they had the car overnight so they could hook it up to a scan tool and test it on a cold boot, because I'd showed them all of the stuff that I'd collected, like how I'd replaced the battery with a much larger battery only a few weeks ago, and how it had only been serviced a week or so after that, and I played them video footage of the car sputtering on in its initial cold start up, as well as photos that I'd taken of what the car is showing me in engineering mode (like how one day it was showing that the battery charge was at 47%, and then without even driving it for a couple of days, I started it again and it was showing me the battery charge was over 96-99%, and the battery voltage was reading fine, and was around 14.1-14.7 volts whilst it was running).

They said that they thought that it might've been the starter motor for some reason (but I've got no idea of why, because if it was the starter motor then you'd expect it to do the same thing each time it started, or at least a lot more than just on the first boot up of the day). Anyways I told them that it'd been scanned when it was serviced, and there were no tripped error codes, and gave them a copy of the diagnostic report, as well as all of the stuff that my mechanic has done to try and find the cause of the problem, like 2 bottles of injector cleaner, cleaning both the throttle body and MAF sensor, ad well as checking for anything visibly not right, and they know my mechanic very well and said that they're an excellent mechanic.

All in all it seems like it was a mystery to them as well, and they were just taking stabs in the dark on what might be causing it, and I told them to call me if they found the issue, so I could work out what to do. They did a cold boot with a scan tool hooked up, and it didn't detect any tripped error codes, or any misfire, or anything like that, so they were really at a loss as to what was causing it also, so they thought that it might've been a possible carbon build up around the valves and in the combustion chamber, so they soaked it in some sort of carbon removing product for 3 hours, and then gave it back to me after they tested it (but because they weren't going to have it for another night they couldn't do another cold boot test), but they basically just charged me for an hour of shop labour, and must be whatever the cleaner cost, but couldn't tell me if it had fixed it or not, and that I'd just have to see how it went

I started it this morning, and it wasn't as bad, but still there, but I'll post an update in a couple of days time and let you know how it's all gone, because it seems to have everyone completely stumped