VE SSV Redline - Cold Start Issues

[Ve-ssv12]

Hey scrano was wondering if you had any problems since? My ve ssv has by the sound of it doing the exact same thing. When I let it sit overnight or a bit longer it splutters like its flooded or something then kicks in and is fine
Took it to zupps for its 60k service and they recommended changing the spark plugs and giving it an injector clean which I did myself because they wanted $400 for plugs and $100 for an injector flush on top of the called service pricing. I've done all of this and still the spluttering on cold start up and I use the same 98 shell v power every time so i would think I could rule out dirty fuel. It's only come about recently all of this so hopefully you know something I don't?

 

[dantheman]

Hey scrano was wondering if you had any problems since? My ve ssv has by the sound of it doing the exact same thing. When I let it sit overnight or a bit longer it splutters like its flooded or something then kicks in and is fine
Took it to zupps for its 60k service and they recommended changing the spark plugs and giving it an injector clean which I did myself because they wanted $400 for plugs and $100 for an injector flush on top of the called service pricing. I've done all of this and still the spluttering on cold start up and I use the same 98 shell v power every time so i would think I could rule out dirty fuel. It's only come about recently all of this so hopefully you know something I don't?

i've noticed the same problem with my car in the last week to two - and i use 98 v power exclusively also. Perhaps it is a suspect batch of fuel. i'm going to a different brand/servo next time to see if the issue persists

 

[Spiza666]

G'day guys, I too have a similar problem which has been going on for a while now. Here's a thread of what mine sounds similar to and he fixed the issue which were fuel pressure regulator. https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/rough-idle-cold-startup.243136

 

[PNR51]

OK... so as you may know Scrano and myself have been heavily trying to get to the bottom of this and I think I have the answer (well at least know the problem).

Background on investigations: Mine started happening a few months ago. I rarely use the car and when it started occuring was thinking it was just because it had been sitting for a while... but gradually it just started to appear more severe, or maybe I started noticing it more. I have been using BP98 for a while now so the problem was when using BP98. Tried several different servo's (all BP)... no difference.

Pulled out all injectors and had them tested as I thought they may have been dribbling when sitting for 10hours plus. Injectors tested fine (infact I was told they were the best closest performing injector set that they had ever tested).

Thought it may have been the tune, so had the car retuned by a very reputable tuner (a different tune from the first). I know for a fact that the re-tune was done from scratch as the original tune was remote (no comments please), and I had to flash a base unlocked tune back in it so the new tuner could carry out the dyno tune. Anyway... after the re-tune, problem still existed.

At this point I purchased a fuel pressure test gauge which screws to the threaded schrader valve. Left cars for days, turned on ignition (let it prime) and pressure was up at 55psi (normal). Started car, pressure remained at 55psi, and did the same thing (stuttering for a few seconds). This eliminated fuel pressure leak back (fuel pressure regulator failure).

I then rang and chatted to the new tuner. He said that he has experienced the same problem with his VF and he uses BP. He had also heard of the same problem, sometimes that it had been rectified by changing fuel brand. His immediate thought were that for some reason, after the car sits for 10 hours plus, when you start the car, it actually starts on the E85 fuel mapping (E85 compatible cars have dual maps, and switching between the maps is automated and triggered by the eflex sensor). After a couple of seconds, the Eflex sensor recognises that the fuel is not E85 and triggers the mapping change and bang your revs ramp up into a normal type cold start.

So I was heading away for the weekend down south and decided to test the theory. Ran car to "very low" and filled with E85. Drove south, and during the first couple of days of being away let the car site for 12 hours plus and then started... starts perfectly problem gone. So while I was away I got the E85 very low again and filled with United 98 premium. Drove home... let car sit for days... start car... perfect!

I believe the tuner was spot on with what is happening. Everyone who seems to be having the same problem has an E85 compatible car. Earlier VE's werent compatible with E85 and didnt have the same dual mapping so arent experiencing the problem. It appears that something within particular 98 blend fuels (differs with brand of fuel) isnt immediately triggering the eflex sensor to change back to the standard mapping. I have no idea why it differs between 98 fuel brands and why the car switches from the previously started fuel mapping and reverts to E85 mapping... but I think thats whats happening.

So I suppose to all the guru tuners out there... why would this be happening? Could it be a holden software problem? Can the setting be changed for the car to always default start in 98 map? It is happening with both tuned cars and standard cars so to me its a holden problem possibly with the sensitivity of the eflex sensor? I like to know where the eflex sensor is?

Dont listen to the crap holden is spinning for the problem. You will keep pouring money into changing out parts and it wont fix anything.

 

[PNR51]

I also find it interesting that holden has dropped the E85 compatibility in my15 cars (removed eflex sensor). Maybe they know something....

 

[07GTS]

easiest way to test that is to log the flex sensor ethanol percentage (in accessories before ign is on) and then turn key on and see what it reads at start up it will either say there is ethanol when there isnt or it will read correct for petrol, i think if u look under the fuel tank on drivers side the sensor is attached to the side of the tank

 

[CJHodge]

This is a very informative read, thanks for all who've posted and contributed.

We're having the exact same issue with our MY12 VE SS Wagon (AFM Auto). The issue has become more pronounced in the last 6-8 weeks, and I'm about to do loose my **** at the local Holden dealer who seem hell bent on interpretting fault codes (and then replacing parts based on this and charging us for it) instead of actually assessing the issues from a first principles basis and trying to actually diagnose the issue. So far they've replaced the battery and taken all injectors out to clean them. I had originally suspected it could be MAF or Water Temp sensor related, but the fact that it never repeats the issue after its first start when it splutters, even if still cold, rules out the water temp sensor and MAF.

Whilst I'm not a mechanic, I understand EFI cars pretty well (have built my racecars as a hobby and tune them myself). The E-flex sensor registering ethanol content incorrectly or playing up and thus causing the ECU to add fuel (i.e. change maps) stacks up with all of the scenarios I've experienced with our car. Ethanol requires 10-20% more fuel (depending on the setup) than 98RON for the same AFR, hence explains why the cars would overfuel so heavily and splutter on cold if it thinks its ethanol buts its actually 98. Additionally, if the car splutters and you turn it off straight away, and go to start it again, its fine, which is likely explained by the flex sensor either correctly registering once the car has started that its not ethanol based fuel, and hence starting correctly.

07GTS - I don't own a diagnostic tool for the our car, but can get access to one. I can also get access to the software capable of writing over the existing tune. Is it possible to simply just the e-Flex sensor as a means of diagnosing this issue?

 

[07GTS]

if u can change the tune file (hptuners, efilive ect) just set the stoich value to 14.68 across the board so it then wont change with any ethanol percentage but make sure u have just petrol in it, or the sensor only varies the resistance so just unplug it and fit a resistor in there that keeps it at the petrol resistance or see what it defaults to when unplugged and if its petrol just leave it like that for testing

 

[CJHodge]

if u can change the tune file (hptuners, efilive ect) just set the stoich value to 14.68 across the board so it then wont change with any ethanol percentage but make sure u have just petrol in it, or the sensor only varies the resistance so just unplug it and fit a resistor in there that keeps it at the petrol resistance or see what it defaults to when unplugged and if its petrol just leave it like that for testing

Thanks 07GTS.

Given the car is still under extended warranty, I might request that they replace the e-Flex sensor if this proves to be the problem. I will post an update once the car has been looked at tomorrow morning.

Cheers

 

[Bubbles86]

Can I ask how long this issue has been effecting your cars? My car is doing something very similar and it started 3 years ago with little help from my local dealer