VF Calais flat battery with auto start

[Skylarking]

Incorrect it's because the voltage is too low so the computer module is not operating properly.
I've seen it hundreds of times on all sorts of makes and models.

If the voltage drops below a level that allows continued safe operation, the system should shut down safely and state the reason for such shutdown... Doing so is simply a good design choice which in part depends on the quality of GMs system engineering team and the robustness of their system testing. The fact the GM’s VF system includes battery charging and battery maintenance logic with DIC messages in some fault situations simply confirms to me that they weren’t very good at identifying all failure modes.

Obviously GM and other manufacturers design aspirations aren’t for solidly designed systems within their vehicles. In GMs case, it seems near enough is good enough where disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, forcing a cold boot if you will, is the go to procedure to resolve many strange issues... Such designs may be acceptable to you but IMO it’s poor engineering.

So don’t think you can say I’m wrong or incorrect, but that I’ve got a strong difference of opinion as to how this fault condition should be handled. Sadly, Holden simply wouldn’t give a toss how poor their system design is as they have effectively left the building

As an interesting side note, United airline flight 811 lost 9 passengers because a door blew open in flight on a trip from Hawaii. Boeing and NTSB investigated and believed the issue was a door latching fault caused by human error. The father of one of the deceased wasn’t satisfied with the investigation and wanted further technical information which Boeing and NTSB resisted but ultimately provided. This chap investigated the issue further and could ultimately prove a correctly latched door along with a wiring fault and the weak cam lock design on the 747 would allow a door to open mid flight. This was one case where NTSB we’re forced to revisit the case and accept the chaps findings. An updated report was produced which amended the reasons for the failure and required Boeing to redesign the door‘s cam lock mechanism on all 747’s... Not sure whether the father gets Christmas cards from Boeing....

Also interesting is the DC-10 cargo door design which blew open during ground testing and the issue subsequently buried by McDonnell Douglas’s via their cosy FAA certification relationship... A known fault got into the air at the cost of a few lost planes (not sure of the number) and all their passengers and crew. Seems ethics meant little to management when $$$ were at stake.

Poor systems design and poor systems test exists everywhere... In aviation it is life threatening but now that cars partly drive themselves, and in future will be driverless, poor car designs can also be life threatening.

Yes, this low battery voltage situation is not life threatening but i doubt vehicle manufacturers have higher ethics than airline companies so we shouldn’t excuse such poor systems design so readily, otherwise peril to us all.

We especially shouldn’t excuse poor system design because time to market is the primary overriding factor as seen by motor manufacture’s management (looking partly at Tesla‘s autopilot here). Add poor business ethics (most businesses) and we become the crash test dummies. May as well get the orange and black quarter circles tattooed to the side of our heads

 

[stooge]

If the voltage drops below a level that allows continued safe operation.

The main problem is that the voltage may have been at 12v but as soon as the starter kicked in that dropped to say 9v and when that happened the microprocessor or "cpu" lost reliable voltage which basically stops it processing instructions.
Once a "cpu" stops processing instructions the entire system stalls and it cant detect the voltage or stop the starter motor from cranking because the system is essentially frozen.

You are right it is poorly engineered but i think it is like that to save costs and as far as the manufacturer is concerned you should have a good battery.

 

[Skylarking]

The main problem is that the voltage may have been at 12v but as soon as the starter kicked in that dropped to say 9v and when that happened the microprocessor or "cpu" lost reliable voltage which basically stops it processing instructions.
Once a "cpu" stops processing instructions the entire system stalls and it cant detect the voltage or stop the starter motor from cranking because the system is essentially frozen.

You are right it is poorly engineered but i think it is like that to save costs and as far as the manufacturer is concerned you should have a good battery.

Supercapacitors within each module could easily provide the needed juice to allow a processor to function despite any battery voltage drop during crank. Such would allow for clean shutdown in those cases. Not even trying to start when the battery is too low could also be a possibility.

I can accept the manufacturer expects a vehicle to have a good battery but why didn’t the battery control system flag an issue well before this occurred... If it did, I've got no problems with the design but if it didn’t (and that was the first the owner knew of the issue) then Id definitely characterise it as piss poor engineering.

I’m aware GM/H (and many others) are run by accountants rather than engineers, sadly... So a lack of a 10 cent item may result in someone unlocking a car, then trying to start it only to hear clackity clackity clack. Then the car battery is then completely dead and the owner can no longer safely lock the car and get to where he needs to be

My intent wasn’t to solve GMs design deficiency. Rather it was to simply highlight something ain’t correct due to tight arse poor engineering. If it peeved the owner, such a problem can be reported to a dealer. In normal times, such reports were supposedly sent to the engineering group to look into and resolve. These days Holden simply wouldn’t give a flying hoot