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Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by VFSSVUTE, Feb 17, 2014.
Hi, were you able to fix this?
Hi, how are these lights holding up? Did you encounter any electrical problems or any issues with the HID's themselves?
Has anyone tried putting LED lights in? If so - how did they go?
Just wondering where you found them in 5000k! would definitely love to purchase a pair for myself.
I have JW speaker LEDs in the hi/low beams and fogs. They are amazing, can’t fault them.
I have the same in high beams, replaced HID's. No warm up time with LED's!
I know HIDs are illegal in headlight housings unless the housing is specifically designed for HID lamps, which as i understand must include a self leveling and headlight washer features so as not to blind other vehicle traffic.
And as i've been blinded a few times by yahoos with suspect HID installs, that think if they can see better the roads are safer, i can fully undrstand why we have and need such rules... Likely i'll be flamed for such a statement but any sensible minded person that thinks someone standing on a box infront of them at the footy is wrong should also understand thje need for rules around headlamps....
But, the controlled light output from commodore headlights is poor and of ancient design, so something better would be nice.
As i've not read up on LED based headlights, i don't know the rules around them. So does anyone know the rules around retrofitting LED lamps into halogen headlight housings that weren't designed to carry bright illumination? Is it at all possible and legal? Do such lamps come with some compliance cerificate otr do they have naff statements "not for road use". And if they are cocher, are retrofitted LED lamps easier to adjust the light output pattern to avoid the problem that retrofitted HID globed seem to suffer when used in halogen lamp housings?
Are there any other legal options available for improving headlight output?
I don't know about the legalities of LEDs - I think they're legal as I know peeps who have had them fitted by "reputable" companies.
My main worry (tbh I don't know if it's still the case) is that LEDs whilst better illumination are/were inferior for distance ie in high beam.
If that's no longer the case I'd happily fit them but I'm not sure what advances, if any, have been made in that area.
They would be the yahoos who fit HID's into non projector head lights.
3 things required for HID's
Self levelling suspension.
I'm trying to navigate the ADRs which link to UN-ECE Regulation 98 for HID headlamps (the addendum goes into LED lamps) but it's a lot of technical reading. Hopefully i'll get through it and learn a little more of whats required to stay legal but i suspect it wont be possible to stay on the correct side of ADRs.
I have strong doubts that any HID globe placed within a headlight assembly designed for a halogen glode, be it a reflector or projector type, would comply to the regulations if a HID lamp was placed within. And that's even if the owner installed self leveling mechanism, whether acting on the lamp assembly or vehicle, installed washers or whatever. That's because the headlamp asemblies were designed for a different spead of light from the globe and halogen globes are not the same as HID globes in the way they spread light (unless i've missunderstood something technical).
In any case such frankenstien combos are not a 'complied' product combination so technically illegal.
But most would simply install the HIDs and seem more at night and think it's an improvement. Now before you bag me, i wonder how many installed a HID globe on one side, walked down the road, say 50 meters, and then looked back at his vehicle with the HID globe covered. Very simply assessed the halogen light output then had someone uncover the HID globe and cover the Halogen globe to again very simply assess the HID light output and determine if the HID bulb would blind oncoming vehicles. And such simplistic tests are not even close to the complex tests used to determine if light output meets regulation. I'd expect close to nobody would bother walking down the road to assess their 'new' lights as the prevailing attitude seems to be the seller knows best and it must be close enough to legal.
So maybe, i'd think you missed the 4th requirement - certification of the assembly AND globe.
But i'm no prude so if i could establish that a frankenstien HID/halogen projector assembly would meet legal requirements, then i'd be OK with it even if the certification wasn't done... but i have my reservations at the moment that they are even close to being OK.
You're correct on most of those points, they don't comply with ADR's regarding Commodores.
Caprice's and Grange's come with HID's and are compliant.
Most retailers will have fine print somewhere stating "Off road use only".
Regarding the bulb, the 'standard' halogen bulb has the filament at a particular position, 'immersion depth'.
The beam patterns required are formed by the design of the reflector/projector in relation to the point source of light, the filament position.
You'll find the HID lamps designed for the VE's and VF's, with the ballast in the dust cap, will have the same point source immersion depth.
The beam patterns will be the same. It's easy to test. Before I swapped to HID, I tried many halogen bulbs.
I spent a lot of money on bulbs, with varying levels of disappointment. Then went and started to research HID's
The back wall of my garage is bricks, turned the headlights on and used duct tape to mark out the beam cut outs with the standard level.
Now I have a reference point.
Regarding other road users, if they're correctly level, it wont be a problem.
When I first did the Redline, I had my daughter come over so we could swap cars. I wanted to see what it is like for other drivers.
Went for a test drive, we tried as many situations as we could think of, it didn't affect other drivers.
Just some info.
@Imoengnr it’s good to here you did much more than most i’ve briefly chatted to about installing their HIDs, you seem to be one of the rare moderate
If I understand, you use LED high beams and HID low beams.
I may go down that route after some more research so thanks for the info.
However, I ’m also interested to find out more about the Caprice or Grange headlamp assemblies as they have HIDs as standard from what you say. Are these much better than standard halogen? Can these headlight assemblies be installed into a VF2 and do you know if the wiring is comparable or do you need the accompanying loom and ballast if external to headlamp assembly? Obviously a much more expensive mod than just a halogen compatible HID globe and ballast but fully compliant.
for legality i think this applies to any light with an output > 2000 lumens (which probably most hids and leds are)
the chev ss comes with HIDS too.. im curious to how that works, how different the light housings + extras are, and why they didnt release them for local cars
i know we obviously cant use the chev ones here as is because they are designed for the wrong side of the road
No can do, Caprice/Grange front end completely different to VF commodore so their headlight assemblies won't fit.
They have self leveling but no washers as the US don't mandate headlight washers. Also their headlight assemblies (internals) are LHD designed.
Hmm, Chevy SS having seat coolers, electrochromatic rear vision missor with Onstar and HID headlights makes a mockery of Holden’s MSE being the greatest vehicle they’ve made. It’s the last but not the greatest it seems, the Chevy fits the ‘greatest’ moniker better...
As for the Chevy SS headlights, guess they’d be a bolt on proposition but are the intervals modifiable for RHD?
I understand that the HID projector headlights use screens and lenses to control light output. I’ve never disassembled a headlight assembly so don’t know but maybe a Frankenstein made by using Aussie Caprice lens and screen with US Chevy SS headlight assembly would bring everything into compliance... without the paperwork... likely rather a costly mod
Thanks @3rspecB for the engineering info!
And @Skylarking , not sure where you're from, but here in Victoria we have selective law enforcement, if it cant be caught on camera or radar gun, its not really an offence, so ADR compliance is way down the list....
Been through a few roadside roadworthy checkpoints and nothing has been said about the lighting, apart from "it all works...".
As long as you're not blinding other road users, by setting the beam levels correctly, you should be fine.
HID's really improve driving at night, I suspect LED's would have a similar improvement, but I haven't tied them in low beams yet.
The JW speaker lights state in big bold writing that they are not ADR or DOT approved and are for off-road use only. And for good reason too.
Probably explains why i was pulled over and given a ticket for unreadable number plate. The plates were from the faulty batch the Vic Gov sent out many years ago. Even though i could read them without problem, seems the Vic Gov was using the police to force owners to go to VicRoads and replace them. Guess it would have cost more for VicRoads to mail out identical number plates to those impacted by their manufacturing error.
In that case, if you replaced your plates with new issued plates within a short time, no charge and no foul and the fine was discarded. Sadly in my case, as i was car minding, i couldn't have new plates issues as i was not the owner who was OS, so i was forced to pay for the same plates to be reissues though the fine was cancelled...
Bunch of pr!cks the lot of them... but i guess they wanted their cameras to have the clearest view of number plates.
And i'm the only one in my group of friends and their friends that has that happen, so if i put on HID's, i'm sure i'll get done regardless of how many roam the streets with 'illegal HID inserts.... Maybe i'll try them and live on the edge
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