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VF Commodore HID Kits

KLoNe

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Don’t really understand your question. But that page is telling you to take note of the original light (cutoff) pattern before messing with the lights.

I still maintain that the Holden, who invested millions in the design of this vehicle knows better than some bloke in his backyard with cheap agtermarket components. If you don’t understand the instructions or the implications of what you’re doing, don’t attempt any work on your car.

There’s a reason engineers spend years in tertiary education.
Thanks Dad! Not sure where I asked if I was more highly educated than Holden's mechanical engineers, but thanks for your input anyway.
Enjoy your grumpy Sunday.
 

Skylarking

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@KLoNe, the light pattern in your picture is for right hand drive vehicles (that drive on the left hand side of the road). The cut-off is designed such that light is not projected upward towards, and blinds, on comming vehicles. In left hand drive markets, the cut-off pattern is reversed for obvious reasons.

Further, HID and LED headlamps are much much brighter than halogen headlamps and as such must meet different design rules that require auto levelers and headlight washers are included in the vehicle design. The reason for these requirements is again because HID/LED headlamps are much much brighter that halogen headlamps and they will blind oncoming vehicles if such components were not included in the vehicle design.

Complying HID or LED headlamps is a technically and beurocratically a complicated and costly process. Vehicle manufacturers will not take short cuts in the same way as these back yard Halogen replacement HID/LED globe insert manufactures do. And as yet i have not found any HID/LED globe inserts that are legal to use in a Halogen lamp assembly. Usually these inserts state "not for road use" for a reason - they are illegal on road vehciles and render your ride unroadworthy...

So, if you are not sure why the headlight cut-off is shaped the way it is, then i'd suggest that @EYY is correct in saying Holden Engineers know more than back yarders (and i'm including the aftermarket Halogen replacement HID/LED globe insert manufacturer in this category). So best to understand that what you are doing renders your vehicle unroadworthy and will almost certainly blind other road users and may even cause an accident.

If you don't understand the basics of headlamp design let alone roadworthy requirements of light projection, then i'd say its best to simply stick to what the manufacturer designed for your vehicle. After all Clint Eastwood said it well ;)
 

[paradox]

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Any insert wouldn't be legal as the stock projector assembly isn't self-cleaning, or self levelling.
depending on state, but if light output is > 2000lm
 

Skylarking

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depending on state, but if light output is > 2000lm
In part that's the crux of the problem as the HID globe inserts i've seem mention the globe's power consumption in Watts and globe temperature (color) in Kelvin but none i've seen mention light output in Lux.... :oops:

And if some globe specified Lumens, well converting Lumens to Lux is not a simple conversion as it depends on distance and beam spread (view angle?)... o_O
 

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Any insert wouldn't be legal as the stock projector assembly isn't self-cleaning, or self levelling. From my understanding a self levelling system is quite complicated.

https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Automotive-lighting/Headlamp-levelling-system-838/

Scroll down to "Dynamic headlamp levelling systems".
Nice link :)

Yep, self leveling HIDs are complicated but a GM parts bin item that checp arse Holden chose to not include on the commodore (though Chevy SS got self leveling HIDs).
 

EYY

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Measurement of light output is pretty well irrelevant, you can be blinded by a $2 led torch if it's aimed towards your face. That's the whole point of what we're saying - focus and light pattern is the issue.
 

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Nice link :)

Yep, self leveling HIDs are complicated but a GM parts bin item that checp arse Holden chose to not include on the commodore (though Chevy SS got self leveling HIDs).
I thought the Chevy SS weren’t self levelling as the US don’t have the rules for self levelling like they do here in Australia?

Otherwise... let’s buy from the States and bring them here! :D
 

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I thought the Chevy SS weren’t self levelling as the US don’t have the rules for self levelling like they do here in Australia?

Otherwise... let’s buy from the States and bring them here! :D
self leveling but no washers
considering the amount of SS that we actually exported, it wouldnt be an easy feat.
also obviously theirs is setup for cutoff on the other side of the road to us
 

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Measurement of light output is pretty well irrelevant, you can be blinded by a $2 led torch if it's aimed towards your face. That's the whole point of what we're saying - focus and light pattern is the issue.
I read somewhere within ADR and the referenced EU regs that headlamp leveling being a requirement when lamp output was > than 2000 lumens or similar. As such lamp output is very relevant but as mentioned not listed in lamp specs.
 

Skylarking

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self leveling but no washers
considering the amount of SS that we actually exported, it wouldnt be an easy feat.
also obviously theirs is setup for cutoff on the other side of the road to us
I took a quick look into it and to do it by the book, you’d need Chevy SS headlamps, open them up and flip the light control shield so the correct RHD pattern is cast, then seal them up so they don’t leak. You’d also need some new wiring and a leveling control box and likely some BMC software updates to handle the headlight washers that you’d have to source and install (tank, pump, tubing, sprayers and all the required wiring back to BMC control module). At the end of it you’d need an engineer to sign it off so road authority will accept it. All the parts should be available from spare parts suppliers in the USofA except the headlight washers bits (look at Holden Caprice or other GM models)

As such, it’s a big and expensive undertaking so I can understand why some simply buy HID inserts and be done with it (legal or not).
 
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Zehq

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...and that is why most people, including myself, just installed them and said **** it, projectors are good enough.
 

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@Zehq, yep, as I said I understand so I’ve bolden the text in my post above.

Still, I don’t like the HID globe insert path people take but I’ll place the blame on Holden being a tight arse and not including HIDs as standard on VF2’s. It would have been simpler for people to pull all bits out of a wreck VF2 and retrofit headlights with leveled and washer systems had they not been cheap (and likely compliancing may have been rather straight forward).
 

Zehq

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@Zehq, yep, as I said I understand so I’ve bolden the text in my post above.

Still, I don’t like the HID globe insert path people take but I’ll place the blame on Holden being a tight arse and not including HIDs as standard on VF2’s. It would have been simpler for people to pull all bits out of a wreck VF2 and retrofit headlights with leveled and washer systems had they not been cheap (and likely compliancing may have been rather straight forward).
Oops, I can't read.

If halogens were any good I'd stick with them. When you spend a lot of your time driving at night, the extra visibility you get with brighter lights goes a long way. I'll take the risk of a ticket if it means I can see a wombat or kangaroo I'm about to hit and avoid it.
 

losh1971

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Why not just go some 100/130w halogens? They would be a lot less obvious than HID's or LED's.
 

KLoNe

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@KLoNe, the light pattern in your picture is for right hand drive vehicles (that drive on the left hand side of the road). The cut-off is designed such that light is not projected upward towards, and blinds, on comming vehicles. In left hand drive markets, the cut-off pattern is reversed for obvious reasons.

Further, HID and LED headlamps are much much brighter than halogen headlamps and as such must meet different design rules that require auto levelers and headlight washers are included in the vehicle design. The reason for these requirements is again because HID/LED headlamps are much much brighter that halogen headlamps and they will blind oncoming vehicles if such components were not included in the vehicle design.

Complying HID or LED headlamps is a technically and beurocratically a complicated and costly process. Vehicle manufacturers will not take short cuts in the same way as these back yard Halogen replacement HID/LED globe insert manufactures do. And as yet i have not found any HID/LED globe inserts that are legal to use in a Halogen lamp assembly. Usually these inserts state "not for road use" for a reason - they are illegal on road vehciles and render your ride unroadworthy...

So, if you are not sure why the headlight cut-off is shaped the way it is, then i'd suggest that @EYY is correct in saying Holden Engineers know more than back yarders (and i'm including the aftermarket Halogen replacement HID/LED globe insert manufacturer in this category). So best to understand that what you are doing renders your vehicle unroadworthy and will almost certainly blind other road users and may even cause an accident.

If you don't understand the basics of headlamp design let alone roadworthy requirements of light projection, then i'd say its best to simply stick to what the manufacturer designed for your vehicle. After all Clint Eastwood said it well ;)
Thanks for your write up, Skylarking!
 

Zehq

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Why not just go some 100/130w halogens? They would be a lot less obvious than HID's or LED's.
I've had no problems with police, even at RBT's. The additional light output I get with the HIDs is worth the risk imo.

+ when you get out of Sydney you see enough 4x4's with HIDs in reflectors anyway... cops are probably used to it.
 

Skylarking

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@Zehq, i must look into the legality of HID/LED high beams.

Since halogen high beams will blind oncoming cars, the law requires you dip to low beams when an oncoming vehicle is closer than 200m (must re read road rules to confirm actual distance). As such i suspect having HID/LED high beams would be OK since dipping to low beams solves any blinding issues.

But then again logic and law make unwelcome bed fellows.

@losh1971, i believe standard high beam is 55W globe so using a 100W or 130W high beam globe seems like you'd get a big increase in heat output. Curious how much heat Holdens headlamps can cope with before they start to deform or the reflectors overheat and go foggy?
 

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iirc when I was looking into it a while ago, HID highs are fine. HID lows (without the prereqs) aren't. I've got both.

Problem I have with HID highs is that it takes a good 6-8 seconds to warm up to max output when switching them on for the first time (or after they've been off for a few minutes). This is with a ballast too. I know one of the other blokes on these forums installed a light bar to work in addition to the HIDs. Looks like it works well. Oh I also have a problem where it's difficult to see incoming car coming around a corner (as my lights massively overpower theirs and I can't see the reflection on the trees/road), so they usually get flashed for a solid half second.
 
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