VF Commodore locked in

[Reaper]

Has any magazine actually got a new model design correct.....

Dazz

My information is that the new CruzeII is a good start. Wheel flares stay.

Reaper

 

[Troy711]

Wonder if this one will have DRLs fitted, like Wheels claimed the VEII was confirmed to have.

 

[Calaber]

My information is that the new CruzeII is a good start. Wheel flares stay.

Reaper

Reap

That's one thing we disagree on. The flares are far too big and your earlier point about reduction in track doesn't measure up. The guards overhand the widest wheels Holden fit by a fair bit already - reducing the flare won't mean track has to reduce. The CD figure is affected by the flares and I reckon Holden will do everything possible within economic limits, to reduce the CD, even by only .01, if it can increase fuel efficiency.

The article goes into some detail about those flares and I think what they say makes sense. Holden likes the flares but recognises the affect they have on wind resistance. Look at the re-design of the front lower corners of the front bumper on the VE 2. It was a tiny adjustment, but it was done, in part, to reduce turbulence in that region that increased drag. The guards will get a re-design anyway as part of the model update - the VE front is tired and dated and if this model has to survive three or four years until the next all new model, the design has to undergo major styling changes. I'm sure all sheet metal forward of the windscreen will change. I reckon the rabbit's ears will be reduced, not removed, but they will be much tighter in against the guards and look much neater. (I guess it's obvious, but I hate the current front flares - I think they are absurdly excessive.)

 

[Reaper]

Wonder if this one will have DRLs fitted, like Wheels claimed the VEII was confirmed to have.

Time will tell. Doesn't a lot of Europe have DRL's as a design rule?? Pretty sure I remember reading it somewhere. Wouldn't surprise me if it's part of the next ADR revision in Aus (speculation)

Reap

That's one thing we disagree on. The flares are far too big and your earlier point about reduction in track doesn't measure up. The guards overhand the widest wheels Holden fit by a fair bit already - reducing the flare won't mean track has to reduce. The CD figure is affected by the flares and I reckon Holden will do everything possible within economic limits, to reduce the CD, even by only .01, if it can increase fuel efficiency.

The article goes into some detail about those flares and I think what they say makes sense. Holden likes the flares but recognises the affect they have on wind resistance. Look at the re-design of the front lower corners of the front bumper on the VE 2. It was a tiny adjustment, but it was done, in part, to reduce turbulence in that region that increased drag. The guards will get a re-design anyway as part of the model update - the VE front is tired and dated and if this model has to survive three or four years until the next all new model, the design has to undergo major styling changes. I'm sure all sheet metal forward of the windscreen will change. I reckon the rabbit's ears will be reduced, not removed, but they will be much tighter in against the guards and look much neater. (I guess it's obvious, but I hate the current front flares - I think they are absurdly excessive.)

For sure. The only sheet metal to remain would possibly be the roof and doors (even then the skins could change). Don't expect a massive departure from what is familiar like the EF - AU Falcon change way back when. The purpose of the VF is to keep a popular product fresh. They aren't designing a new body.

Reaper

 

[Calaber]

Time will tell. Doesn't a lot of Europe have DRL's as a design rule?? Pretty sure I remember reading it somewhere. Wouldn't surprise me if it's part of the next ADR revision in Aus (speculation)



For sure. The only sheet metal to remain would possibly be the roof and doors (even then the skins could change). Don't expect a massive departure from what is familiar like the EF - AU Falcon change way back when. The purpose of the VF is to keep a popular product fresh. They aren't designing a new body.

Reaper

Yep, I realise that this is only a mid-life facelift, but this update has to keep the VE/VF competitive and that's getting harder as the basic design dates. It's well over four years old now and a new shell isn't due for some years yet. I anticipate this update will be on the same scale as VP to VR - I think you've said that before. I've also pointed out previously that revisions to the rear quarters will be costly because the VE shell uses single side pressings, with the rear quarters incorporated with the door openings, outer sill and outer scuttle pressing as one piece. Any sheetmetal changes to the rear quarter will involve new dies for the whole side pressing of the car - extremely expensive.

For that reason, the Wheels article seems a bit wide of the mark when it says that the section at the base of the rear pillars could alter in line with the Cruze - I reckon the rear will stick with existing pressings but have new bumpers and tail-light assemblies and probably a new outer boot pressing. All major panel revisions will be at the front.

To others who claim the Wheels article makes the car look like a Volt, it's worth remembering that the Commodore is just one member of the big GM family and corporate design features will occur in multiple models world wide. The VE was unique to Australia, but still had design cues from other GM models. The Chev split grille is one feature that is redesigned for the Cruze in Australia, but appears on Chevs in the states from the Volt to their light trucks. It's a "corporate face" which is intended to convey a GM family image and make the vehicles instantly identifiable as GM products. Holden will be no different, particularly as any Australian designed Holden will be intended for export to traditional Chevrolet markets. It will need to be easily adaptable to that corporate face, so don't expect anything that looks dramatically different to existing GM designs.

 

[Reaper]

Yep, I realise that this is only a mid-life facelift, but this update has to keep the VE/VF competitive and that's getting harder as the basic design dates. It's well over four years old now and a new shell isn't due for some years yet. I anticipate this update will be on the same scale as VP to VR - I think you've said that before. I've also pointed out previously that revisions to the rear quarters will be costly because the VE shell uses single side pressings, with the rear quarters incorporated with the door openings, outer sill and outer scuttle pressing as one piece. Any sheetmetal changes to the rear quarter will involve new dies for the whole side pressing of the car - extremely expensive.

They may have scope to modify the dies to some extent for different tail treatments etc.

For that reason, the Wheels article seems a bit wide of the mark when it says that the section at the base of the rear pillars could alter in line with the Cruze - I reckon the rear will stick with existing pressings but have new bumpers and tail-light assemblies and probably a new outer boot pressing. All major panel revisions will be at the front.

Yeah - pillars are generally "hard points" as once they are altered *everything* changes. I'd expect revised tail lights to what you described above.

To others who claim the Wheels article makes the car look like a Volt, it's worth remembering that the Commodore is just one member of the big GM family and corporate design features will occur in multiple models world wide. The VE was unique to Australia, but still had design cues from other GM models. The Chev split grille is one feature that is redesigned for the Cruze in Australia, but appears on Chevs in the states from the Volt to their light trucks. It's a "corporate face" which is intended to convey a GM family image and make the vehicles instantly identifiable as GM products. Holden will be no different, particularly as any Australian designed Holden will be intended for export to traditional Chevrolet markets. It will need to be easily adaptable to that corporate face, so don't expect anything that looks dramatically different to existing GM designs.

Correct.

Reaper