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vibration steering

john fantastic

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I've been musing on this one for a few days, letting my subconcious work on it a bit. I think it may be right-side related, as that is where the vehicle weight transfers to on a left turn as you also tend to be braking at the beginning of a turn manouvre. About the only moving part you haven't replaced is the rotating shafts or axles which I think might have a small bend from an old kerb knock or suchlike. Don't know how tricky taking them off is, but I could test them in a lathe no trouble. I think the right axle might have a very slight curve.
Hey no braking involved and have replaced both hubs
 

john fantastic

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Arrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh! took to holden. had no choice, if one more independent worked on it,i may as well use it as a garden ornament.
The place with no sign took her in,i went with the tech who drove it he felt it, Eureka i thought! they had it for the day ,i was ready to be ripped a new one.. they spent 4 hours on it, and cannot be certain but could be a rack?. I was only charged $66 which was kind, they said to see if it gets worse then reinvestigate...I am thinking a torque sensor there is so much information flying around at any given second, it could be anything.
 

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Arrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh! took to holden. had no choice, if one more independent worked on it,i may as well use it as a garden ornament.
The place with no sign took her in,i went with the tech who drove it he felt it, Eureka i thought! they had it for the day ,i was ready to be ripped a new one.. they spent 4 hours on it, and cannot be certain but could be a rack?. I was only charged $66 which was kind, they said to see if it gets worse then reinvestigate...I am thinking a torque sensor there is so much information flying around at any given second, it could be anything.
Did you try recalibrating the steering with GM SPS programming software, not a general scan tool?
 

Skylarking

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they spent 4 hours on it, and cannot be certain but could be a rack?
They are supposed to be the experts so if they can’t identify the root cause of the issue and then resolve the problem, who how are owners supposed to cost effectively repair their car? Such is a sad indictment on the quality of the product Holden has designed.

In any case, you’d think the dealer should be able to sort out whether it’s a mechanical or electrical issue with the EPS, without huge drama. But since they have no clue, I’d look at it myself. I’d disconnect the EPS connector so (presumably) the system can‘t provide any steering assistance and reverts to an unassisted mechanical system. Then I’d go for a drive (knowing you won’t have any assistance) and assess the behaviour. If the car steers well and doesn’t vibrate or wander everywhere, you can be certain it ain’t a mechanical issue. Such would then mean it‘s a control systems issue with the EPS system itself. As such, you can then reconnect the plug, clear the fault codes and then do a recalibration of the various sensors in the hope that sorts out the system behaviour.

But really, I’d have thought there would be a way to passivate EPS system assistance via GDS, so one doesn’t have to disconnect the plugs, and then test the mechanical behaviour of the steering before doing any calibration. Maybe there is but if so why didn’t the Holden techs do just that?

Hopefully a calibration will sort this out…

Just keep in mind that EPS systems are rather sophisticated and complex. BMW for example uses them EPS to also provide vibrating haptic feedback when you wander out of your lane (analogous to stick shake on a plane)… So unless aerospace levels of system design and verification were used in their design, there can be ghosts in the machine which provide haptic feedback when it’s not required. Maybe that’s what you’re suffering :p:mad:
 
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Forg

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They are supposed to be the experts so if they can’t identify the root cause of the issue and then resolve the problem, who are owners supposed to cost effectively repair their car? Such is a sad indictment on the quality of the product Holden has designed.
To be fair, the Holden engineers who munged together the old GM bits to make the Commode‘s mechanicals probably didn’t expect the company to have been flushed by HO …
 

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To be fair, the Holden engineers who munged together the old GM bits to make the Commode‘s mechanicals probably didn’t expect the company to have been flushed by HO …
I am being fair…

If they “munged” together old GM bits to make the VF, without consideration to dealer diagnosis and test methodology at the design phase, then that says it all.

The fact HO later flushed the company is irrelevant to all those design decisions which were made much much earlier. So a dealer now finds they are unable to do an accurate fault analysis and test/isolate components to cost effectively repair the actual faulty item without resorting to an expensive parts cannon is the problem.

A poor quality product isn‘t only something that fails prematurely. It can be something that’s impossible to fault diagnose accurately which makes it cost prohibitive as those who maintain it resort to a parts cannon approach making repair uneconomical…

In such cases, it’s probably fair to say it‘s a poor quality product if the “experts” can’t maintain it…

The only “out” for Holden, in this case, could be poorly trained techs who don’t know the systems well enough to accurately fault diagnose. Having said that, the VF has some complex systems installed and the workshop manual doesn’t contain enough detail to explain their operation in detail as it relies on DTC and dumbed down workflows (again such is a design decision).

But it’s just my opinion (even though I still like my VF). Your opinion may be rather different :p
 

john fantastic

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They are supposed to be the experts so if they can’t identify the root cause of the issue and then resolve the problem, who how are owners supposed to cost effectively repair their car? Such is a sad indictment on the quality of the product Holden has designed.

In any case, you’d think the dealer should be able to sort out whether it’s a mechanical or electrical issue with the EPS, without huge drama. But since they have no clue, I’d look at it myself. I’d disconnect the EPS connector so (presumably) the system can‘t provide any steering assistance and reverts to an unassisted mechanical system. Then I’d go for a drive (knowing you won’t have any assistance) and assess the behaviour. If the car steers well and doesn’t vibrate or wander everywhere, you can be certain it ain’t a mechanical issue. Such would then mean it‘s a control systems issue with the EPS system itself. As such, you can then reconnect the plug, clear the fault codes and then do a recalibration of the various sensors in the hope that sorts out the system behaviour.

But really, I’d have thought there would be a way to passivate EPS system assistance via GDS, so one doesn’t have to disconnect the plugs, and then test the mechanical behaviour of the steering before doing any calibration. Maybe there is but if so why didn’t the Holden techs do just that?

Hopefully a calibration will sort this out…

Just keep in mind that EPS systems are rather sophisticated and complex. BMW for example uses them EPS to also provide vibrating haptic feedback when you wander out of your lane (analogous to stick shake on a plane)… So unless aerospace levels of system design and verification were used in their design, there can be ghosts in the machine which provide haptic feedback when it’s not required. Maybe that’s what you’re suffering :p:mad:
Great response and articulated feedback there S, excellent explanation, In fact, there is a hell of a lot of things going on at any one given time, funny you should say what you did regarding disconnection and reset, I agree, 100%. yes, these guys have been there a long time and I thought last resort yeh Nah! FFS tonight it was really bad, then earlier today it was just bearable,(still annoying) but okay-ish.

I have the fortune of having a hoist at home and she is tight as. THE UTE!

Close inspection shows the rack has either been replaced /removed/badly tightened, prob may have been there, and I've driven a lot of cars, in fact, I drove an ssv sedan 2 weeks ago and it had the same thing in the same spot but very very mild, was a series 1 like my ute, but auto.

I was facing timing a mate in the UK and he said pretty much what you wrote.

It's electronic no doubt Steve the UK guy has 30 years in car electronic design and implementation and from what you just wrote.. it's A SIGN!

its a feedback issue just in a particular spot it like has a flat spot on the PCB, dirt in somewhere.. ☹☹
 

RevNev

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Hopefully a calibration will sort this out
I had a vibration issue with my old GenF1 R8 with Simmons cast wheels that aren't perfect in runout but within spec and new Bridgestone S001 tyres. It didn't vibrate in a straight line, but it did vibrate from about 85 to 110kmph when you loaded to steering wheel a bit to keep the car straight or follow a curve in the road and ultimately seemed like a wheel balance issue. The car had only done 6000km's, still virtually brand new with no damage or suspension/ component wear.

After balancing the wheels about 4 times myself on our own near new balancing machine and supervising a stud or finger balance at our local Bob Jane store on a good balancing machine I couldn't fix it. Then I tried a mate's front wheels off his VF GTS that didn't vibrate on his car but vibrated on mine just the same as the Simmons and Bridgestone setup.

A bloke who knew a bloke's mate who was a mechanic at a Holden dealer, told him about steering calibration causing vibration issues. After about 4 hours messing around getting permission from HSV for a non-HSV Holden dealer to recalibrate an HSV car, this mate of mate did the factory recalibration for me properly and fixed the vibration problem! My SSVR Ute started to vibrate when changing the wheel offset and by that time, we had the GM system and a factory steering recalibration likewise fixed that too!

Our Autel Scan tool does a partial setup recalibration but how we fixed it was reprogramming the steering modules and setup with the GM SPS programming software. I haven't tried a reset with GM GDS but a reset with the Autel scan tool didn't work or fix the vibration.
 
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