VR Buick V6 timing chain/balance shaft noise ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE!!!

[Azwellaz]

Hi guys, i have just purchased a a daily which is a 1993 VR Acclaim with the Buick V6, not long after i got it the motor started making a rattling noise, i assumed from previous experience ( Never assume! ) that it was just exhaust heatshield rattle, pulled them off and the noise is still there, after much research and a couple mechanics opinions its been narrowed down to the timing set/chain or the balance shaft bearing, i have yet to pull this apart for a look but i have already decided i am going to ditch the balance shaft and just change the timing set regardless while im there ( Yes chain tensioner, water pump, balancer etc too will be replaced )

Now after many google searches and forum reading i still have a couple of questions that i need straight answers to before i have the confidence to tackle this small nightmare

I do not wish to just replace the timing set with a stock one so straight away i thought of the good ole Rollmaster double row timing set from my V8 days

Problem with this apparently is to make it fit wether you like it or not the balance shaft needs to come out as it fouls the double row timing set, there is also the possibility apparently that the double row set can also foul the oil pump cover in which case you can purchase a new thinner cover from places like MACE or add extra timing cover gaskets to gain that bit of extra clearance, now cars have the most amount of frigging about at the best of times so i don't like this idea even tho i would like the extra strength of a double row timing set

So it looks like i will be going with the Crow CS6VP single row timing set which i guess would be stronger than stock and not have the extra fuss of fitting the double row Rollmaster set

Crow CS6VP link here
CS6VP Crow Cams Timing KIT SET FOR Holden V6 3 8L Commodore VN S 2 VP VR S 1 | eBay

NOW my questions are

Do all Buicks from VN Series-2 to VR Series-1 have this 2 spline oil pump mentioned in the CS6VP link?

And this question is a 2 parter, does the oil gallery holes need to be blocked on the Buick V6's once the balance shaft is removed or does that only apply to Ecotec's?

If the galleries need to be blocked on the Buicks also i have seen that you can just remove the gear from the balance shaft to make it inoperable but then what holds the remainder of the shaft in? Can it slide foward and hit the bigger timing gear causing damage?

Any info would be greatly appreciated, if you have read this far you are a champion!

Cheers

 

[VK SL 3800]

If the engine is std dont bother deleting the balance shaft, see what you find when you pull the front cover off. The tensioner has probably broken, a std timing chain set will be totally fine.

There is no gains to be had getting a double row one with std internals. ZZP do a single row chain with no tensioner from memory.

The balance shaft rear bush will rattle and carry on for a very long time before failing entirely. The front bearing is not prone to failure unless the oil changes have been let run over a hell of a lot, other parts will fail before this normally.

 

[Bowen]

Also just take the toothed gear off the nose of the shaft no need to take the shaft out.... Is still held in (well in Ecotec anyways)

 

[Azwellaz]

If the engine is std dont bother deleting the balance shaft, see what you find when you pull the front cover off. The tensioner has probably broken, a std timing chain set will be totally fine.

There is no gains to be had getting a double row one with std internals. ZZP do a single row chain with no tensioner from memory.

The balance shaft rear bush will rattle and carry on for a very long time before failing entirely. The front bearing is not prone to failure unless the oil changes have been let run over a hell of a lot, other parts will fail before this normally.

Thanks for the info mate, yes i think i will just go with a stock timing set to make things easier if i find thats the issue however if the balance shaft is the issue i know it may not cause any harm apart from the noise for a while but to be honest the noise is quite embarrassing and makes me hate driving my car so if the balance shaft is the issue its going to have to go in some way shape or form
Cheers

 

[Azwellaz]

Well timing cover is off and this is what i found

Tming chain has minimal slack and the tensioner looks ok so i am now assuming that the horrid noise is coming from the rear bearing of the balance shaft, i will be taking the gear off the front of the balance shaft so it is no longer operable, i already have a new chain tensioner which i might as well fit but now i am just trying to decide on wether i should change the timing set while i am there just for buggerys sake

BTW people, this is what the inside of your motor will look like if you are lazy with the servicing, the previous owner of my car must have been terrible, wouldn't believe thats a genuine 100,000k's on a VR would you? REGULAR SERVICING GUYS!

Cheers

 

[Azwellaz]

Timing chain is a bit difficult to do in a car due to the bottom of the timing cover is bolted to the sump.
Things you'll need is timing cover gasket, New timing chain kit(better than buying just a chain) new tensioner. Possibly a few other gaskets depending on what you remove. I suggest doing your water pump while your at it.
The Crow heavy Duty timing set CS6VP (rrp $175) is good Might get it cheaper if youre lucky.

The Basic plan is
Drain cooling system,
Remove harmonic balancer (PITA need puller and usually a rattle gun to remove retaining nut)
Remove Water pump(actually can remain on timing cover just undo the bolts that go through the pump and cover to the block) and anything else in the way of removing timing cover.
Remove timing Cover
Rotate Engine to TDC (easier with spark plugs removed) Both dots on sprockets line up with another (cam dot at bottom crank dot at top)
Remove tensioner (if it's still there ) chain and timing gear/sprocket from camshaft.
Check that the balance shaft timing mark line up with cam gear.
Replace sprocket/s
Use straight edge to make sure both sprockets are aligned
Fit new timing chain and tensioner ( note on tensioner there's 2 types short bolt and long bolt late model vr-to vx run long bolt some late vp's may also use long bolt. Check by examining hole threads starts deeper in on long bolt tensioners)
Check that timing chain does not foul on timing cover or balance gear
Re-assemble everthing Paying attention to make sure your gasket surfaces are clean i suggest using an aviation sealant like loctite No.3

Thats the basics if you got some mechanical skills you should breeze through it. If you dont want to remove sump i suggest using silicone or sikaflex type seleant around the sump so it doesnt leak.

Cheers Pub

PS I Reported that this thread should be moved instead of bitching about people posting in the wrong section

Also found this little piece of info on this forum which will help a bit!

 

[VR38]

Did you also have the oil light coming on?

 

[Azwellaz]

Did you also have the oil light coming on?

No i didn't

Cheers

 

[Jxfwsf]

To check how stretched the chain is did you take the pressure off the tensioner completely?

 

[Azwellaz]

To check how stretched the chain is did you take the pressure off the tensioner completely?

No just gave her a little jiggle as is with tensioner still in place, minimal movement, i would have thought with the tensioner released there would be a fair amount of movement wether the chain is old or new as the tensioner is just that, to tension the extra slack in the chain?

Cheers