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VR V6 running lean.

Discussion in 'VR - VS Holden Commodore (1993 - 1997)' started by losh1971, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

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    If you have your original tune fit that and see what it does
     
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  2. VPRob

    VPRob Active Member

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    The VR location is lower down on the pipe. The VP is pretty close to the manifold - a hotter position. Possibly, with headers fitted, which I am told lose more heat into the engine bay, the O2 sensor may struggle to get up to the required temp - even with the heater element in the VR sensor. O2 sensors need to get above 600 degrees F and preferably up to 900 degrees.
    Where is your sensor located?
     
  3. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Down near the cat Rob.
     
  4. VPRob

    VPRob Active Member

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    so is that different from the normal position with the standard VR exhaust? I believe the heater element in a VR O2 sensor is not a particularly strong heater so moving it further away from the heat source could well adversely affect its performance. Even if it operates satisfactorily it will take longer to get up to temp and that means more time running on the default (rich) setting.
     
  5. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    No Rob just before the cat is the stock VR location. Not getting hot enough was my thinking but Delco was saying it needs to be there. I don't mind getting CEL's so much but if it's leaning out I would hate to burn out a valve or damage something else.
     
  6. VPRob

    VPRob Active Member

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    Well I certainly can't claim any expertise but I would be amazed if any supplier ever recommended anything apart from the standard use/position for any part they supplied. Probably with good reason, but they won't stick their neck out either.
    I fitted the VR heated sensor because I do quite a few very short trips around town and was hoping to get a quicker response from the O2 sensor and so less time running rich. Also a heated sensor is supposed to last longer than a non heated one.
    There was no obvious improvement in economy but it doesn't throw codes other than 12 (paper clip method)
    My economy is pretty **** these days and would love to get it better. I would like to check fuel pressure and injectors sometime as I have never done anything with those
     
  7. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Delco i will try the original memcal. What would happen if I leave the Mace memcal in. Will the ECU make adjustments within its parameters? Or will i need to send it back and have it retuned?
     
  8. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

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    If you had an aldl cable and laptop you could log the ecu and see what the issue is and see how well the o2 is working and if it is too lean.
     
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  9. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I will get an ALDL soon as i can afford one, im really finding its a necessity.
     
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  10. VS_Pete

    VS_Pete Donating Member

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    This was done on my VS by aceventura thanks mate
    https://forums.justcommodores.com.a...r-earth-problem-–-known-holden-problem.98628/
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
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  11. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Now I am getting four codes, 13, 31, 44 & 56 using paperclip. I am really leaning towards a faulty ground. I am thinking the method of repair above is the go. Without having the a proper scan tool I'm only speculating but the times where I get CEL's are around 2k and 60kph with little or no throttle, it happens pretty much whenever I drive in that rev range and speed, therefore I am thinking it is more to do with heating and ground and it quite possibly is not actually leaning out.
    I'm almost tempted to remove the cluster and paint the CEL light black..... lol But that will be a last resort...
     
  12. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Need to wait until pay day and see if I have enough to grab an Envyous Customs cable and software this week. If I get one will it tell me real data or is it going to be relying on information from a potentially improperly functioning O2 sensor?
     
  13. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

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    Will be able to see what' going on if its got o2s cooling down or just lean and tell you how close the tune is from the fuel trims
     
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  14. Brisbarnz

    Brisbarnz Active Member

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    I’m having similar issue with my v6 Vq, code 13 so tried a new o2 with same results. Added an extra earth no more code 13 but now has 44 lean. Have just put new fpr on as old one was leaking from vac line. No vac leaks or manifold leaks. Thinking it may be the iac valve playing up.

    Subscribing to topic as this is interesting.
     
  15. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Just ordered an Envyous Customs ALDL. Hopefully figure this out soon, as I have four days off work next week. Bris, did you splice into the harness or did you do the method above and provided a new ground to the ECU?
     
  16. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    The leak you mentioned Bris, was it a pipe that goes to the canister? I just noticed one of the pipes on mine had snapped off. Can't be 100% sure when this occurred. It is possible that the headers got hooked up upon installation and yanked it off and I just never noticed it. I'm often refitting the top pipe (other one) as it doesn't stay on properly as it has had the wrong size adapter hose fitted at the canister and it can slip off with the tiniest bit of fiddling in the engine bay.

    Anyone have an idea if this broken line could cause the engine to run lean??
     
  17. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    Another question are VP's and VR's the same with the canister set up? I might not be able to get a VR one from the self-serve wrecker but will try.
     
  18. Brisbarnz

    Brisbarnz Active Member

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    I just jammed an extra wire in the earth side of the o2 plug and earthed it under the alarm horn.
    Vp vr canister I believe is the same.
    I’ve had my vac line from charcoal canister rub thru on the idler pulley before made no difference with a hole or repaired.
    The leak I had was fuel coming out of the fuel pressure reg vac line it’s a good indication it’s stuffed.

    I recently put on a 65mm tbody, thought this may have given the lean code so put 60mm back on with no difference.

    I pulled injectors out not so long ago, is it possible it’s pulling air from the lower oring if not seated correctly?
    Im running out of ideas. It’s currently cheaper to drive my 5L
     
  19. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    So as i mentioned elsewhere the valley cover gasket was leaking. I suspect it was pressuring my cooling system but can't be 100% until i allow the engine to vac the coolant a couple of times and see how hard the top hose gets after a couple of cold starts and up to full pressure. Now I'm wondering if it is possible that the lean codes i was getting were related to a leaking manifold gasket? Is it possible that the leaks could be the cause? I have reset the ECU, but it could be a few days before I go for decent drive. I was getting CELs 10 or 12 times in a 1.5hr trip prior to replacing the gaskets.
     
  20. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    What engine is in your VQ, Bris? Think I have fixed the lean issue with mine. Just drove 120km and no lean codes after resetting the ECU. I still have 13 and plan to sort out the ground issue but that can wait. Turns out I think my lean codes were being caused by a worn out valley cover gasket. The gasket was in real bad shape and the inside of the intake from the TB right to the inlet ports were black. I also had oil mixing with coolant at the rear of the manifold. I have only used paperclip to scan codes as it was easy to do that quickly before I muck around and load the laptop with the software but so far it's looking good.
    I still have error 31 and am wondering if my Envyous Customs scan tool could actually turn off VATS in the memcal??
     

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