Vr-vs Airconditioning

[gsmrobinson]

I would like to point out to all those considering doing an airconditioning service on their VR-VS Commodore that to perform the basic function of changing the Reciever Drier (A/C Filter) can be a problem for the A/C Tech. The chances are that due to the Reciever Drier being made from steal and the Condensor (in front of radiator) and Liquid lines being made from Alloy they tend to sieze the nuts onto the Reciever Drier. This requires either the Condensor and/or the Liquid lines to be replaced/repaired. This is NOT the fault of the A/C Tech. Please remember that the Airconditioning should be serviced EVERY two (2) years.

 

[Darren]

Car A/C's don't need to be serviced full stop due to filters not being able to maintained. Besides checks of the suction and discharge pressure the drier should only be changed if there has been a leak as it is likely to be contaminated. The drier is only there to remove any moisture which may have gotten into the system.

The connections going to the drier have teflon o-rings inside the nuts so there is no metal to metal contact causing the steel to corrode due to different metal types. If the o-rings are in good condition you shouldn't find any corrosion which is why it is generally recommended to use the A/C during the winter months to get the heater going but not everyone knows that.

As long as the viscosity of the oil is good enough to lubricate the pipes it won't be enough to cause a leak.

All in all though if the o-rings are shot there will be corrosion which means the pipes will have to changed so yes gsmrobinson you are certainly correct in that respect.

 

[gsmrobinson]

As the Manager of an Automotive Airconditioning Company and 12 years of doing A/C work I would like to point out that I get around 4 to 5 VR-VS' in a month with the problem stated. I'm not blowing my own horn so PLEASE take the following as advice and not critisism.

The o'rings only seal the fittings, the nuts that go onto the reciever drier are the problem! The nuts are alloy and the drier is metal, these can, in a lot of cases but not always, cause the nuts on the fittings to corrode (grow onto) the reciever drier. This is a chemical reaction between the two metals.

Garth you where right in stating that the reciever drier can not be maintained, and yes it should always be replaced if the system has been opened up, but It is, in the A/C industry, common knowledge that the reciever drier be replaced every two years, obviously by a qualified tech due to the high pressures. And no they are not normaly servicable items (WB/HZ being the exception but only by a qualified technician) and SHOULD NOT be touched by the general public due to the very high pressures involved. The reason for replacing the drier is due to the fact that it has three main functions

1. To remove any moisture from the system due to the very slight permitation in some systems and/or poor servicing. It has a limited capacity and once "full" is unable to perform this function which can lead to corrosive problems in the system and/or the possiblity of sending the dessicant into the Tx valve causing a blockage.

2. To remove particals from the system due to any corrosive activities in the system, due mainly to moisture in the system, and the mechanical breakdown over time of the compressor (it does have quite a large number of mechanical moving parts, i.e wearing parts). If this gets to a point where it blocks up it may cause a blockage in the system, thus no cold.

3. To act as a vapour seperator so the TX Valve gets a constant stream of liquid to it for optimum performance.

I'm not sure by your comment on using the A/C duing winter to get the heater working but you where correct that not many people know to use the A/C duing winter. I believe in the theory that it stops leaks happening by lubricating the o'rings (which are mostly made up of a rubber known as HNBR NOT teflon except in the hose connections on York (Early Ford) compressors and some shaft seals)and the compressors shaft seal.


I am sorry if I did not explain myself correctly in the first post, hope this clears it up a little for everybody. KIND REGARDS.

 

[Darren]

What you have said certainly makes sense to me but I didn't write the original reply it was my brother who is an refrigeration mechanic not me I don't expand my knowledge that far hehe

I did write the part about the air con in winter, I find it's great for warming up the engine and getting the heater going not to mention keeping the air con in some form of working order.

 

[Chris]

I have this problem now.
i took my car for what i thought was a air con service and when i went to pick it up they told me the nuts wre siezed and 1 off the pipes broke and is now just hanging there which is on the right hand side of the drier if you were standing in front of the car aand the other is also split so they say.

My ??? is how much would it cost to repair and regas
how long does it take to do the job???
where can i get it done ??? i live in central west NSW but am prepaired to travel a reasonable distance to get it fixed ie Sydney is 3 hours away

the other guys told me it would take 8 hours plus to replace the pipes etc and the the normal regas time on top which dosnt sound right correct me if im wrong

any advice help would be gratefull

Chris

 

[gsmrobinson]

Hi Chris, If your car is a Vr or Vs it is a very common problem for the pipes to sieze and crack (see my post in the Vr-Vs forum). You have two options.
Replace the condensor and liquid line or find someone who can repair them, but the later is unlikely. The time frame to do the job should take no more than 4 hours , if they are a little on the slow side. The pipe is removed and replaced by a 2 piece unit and the radiator is moved back onto the engine to remove the condensor. The worst part is removing the condensor and removing the pipe at the evaporator (see the section I wrote on how to remove the fan speed resistor this will help to get to the pipe).

The cost should not be too much over $500 but will look into the exact cost and will find out a good a/c tech for you.

> The condensor is a CN 6315, the pipes are AL 6315 and the reciever drier is a RD 6108 but I prefer to use the RD 6109 which has a sight glass on it. Not sure on pricing your way but you should NOT have to pay anymore than $280 for the condensor, $70 for the pipes and $60 for the reciever drier plus gassing and labour but again this depends on supply and demand.

Hope this all helps in some way, Sorry you did not read the post befor going to get your car done.

Kind regards Guy

 

[Darren]

hmmm hey Guy looks to me we have another one of these problems. Here's me who said recently I had never heard of this problem before.

 

[MuNtEd]

hey all
i took my vr to holden to get my a/c check out as it was not cold anymore
after i had just got it checked out and re-gased by them only a month ago.

they said if it does'nt feel cold anymore bring it back so yeah i have done that

got a phone call back saying that there was a major leak near the evaporator
said it was a nasty job to be go to take like 8 hrs and going to cost be $1200.00
for parts, gas and labour

i think i'm going to save my $1200.00 and just do it the easy way and wind down all the windows

 

[gsmrobinson]

I'm sorry to hear about your problem. The evaps in the Commodores have been, well lets just say, not very good since the VN. The job will take upto 8 hours to do but you may get the job done a bit cheaper using an A/C specialist.

I would suggest that if you do get the job done do the TX Valve at the same time as the o'rings tend to leak too. It has to be removed at the time of doing the job anyway and for the $60 it may cost you it is well worth it.

I really do hope that the Holden dealer informed you about the potential of a leak befor taking your money off of you!! Any profesional would have informed you that THE AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEM IS A SEALED UNIT AND IF ITS LOW ON GAS IT HAS A LEAK IN IT, NO ANDS, IFS OR MAYBES. IT HAS A LEAK FULLSTOP. I'm sorry but I get the shits when I hear people saying the system is OK and just neads REGASSING, this is a load of crap.....NO GAS = LEAK end of story, the only time you might need regassing is if you have disconnected something on perpose. And I'm sure you would know if you did!

Anyway you go it is a lot of work to do an evaporator and remember that the whole dash has to be removed to do the job properly so don't go to a back yardy. I will post the how to on this job later on in the month but expect it to be a VERY BIG job. (Just check out what has to be done to get the radio out!!!!)

Hope it all goes well down the track.

Kind regards Guy.

 

[MuNtEd]

yeah thanks guy

as i thought there would be a leak somewhere but of course when they checked the a/c they said everything was find and i said go ahead and re-gas it.
since i have only had the vr just a little over 2 months now and have all the service history for it the a/c was last serviced in oct-2000.

me hoping it was only going to be something small, like maybe a leaky value, but when they rang it was a diffirent story.

anyway i'll be waiting for your post in the future on the how to

MuNtEd