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VS LS Swap Build

gtrboyy

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Throw another stocker in it then mang it to death.Rinse & repeat.

If undecided just get it back on the road & use it untill can you know...often it's easier to have a daily driver & leave project car in garage.
 

Draimond

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I'm based in Brisbane.
Still hunting for a non abs and non air bag VR/VS that needs a new motor if anyone has one.
Also got a '96 T5 manual conversion sitting there in the other chassis.

:confused: How have we not run out of wreckers engines with people doing the stocko swap? haha
I'd go a lumpy 307 in a '76 Celica...

It's probably going to be a rebuild at this stage. Mace never got back to me so whatever. Maybe I'll just take the block and crank in for it's check and go from there. I think the LS is off the table the moment I spend a $ on the V6.

Been playing around with this engine builder sim.
It's all just bs fun... but then again it get's interestingly close results to real world specs in some cases.

That's supposed to be close to what twin GT2554's will do with a close to factory cam, 9.4 compression, 91 octane and supporting mods.
It's that low down power that I want for skids and 'beating the lights' haha.
Ecotec Turbo GT2554.png
list1.png


Config, engine size, kw, torque. At the engine*
Obviously I know this isn't an accurate indication of real world performance. But like I said it's interesting.

Maybe hit the jap forums for a pair of S13 turbo's.
Could even just throw a cheap rebuild into the motor, essentials only. Put ebay turbos on with the same flanges as the proper turbo's I want to upgrade too. Drive it for a while, while I get all the setup right, then put decent money into a full build with quality parts. At least doing it this way, I got all the piping done, ECU etc.

I'm kinda haunted by Holden_4aw_lyfe's thred. He put serious money into a done right build... car was off the road for years. Sounded emotionally taxing for him. My biggest problem is I'm indecisive as hell, at the end of the day I just want to build something that gets me back on the road/track asap doing what I want to do. I've got a VY and R34 I can cruise around in for now but, yes I know call me crazy, I just want MY commodore.
 

Draimond

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@Pollushon & @_R_J_K_

Do you have an actual goal in mind (pissed off and obnoxious can be achieved with an angle grinder and straight pipe on any car)? How much of it will you be doing yourself?
I may have already achieved this hahaha...
Goal is street/drift. I'll do as much as possible myself.

Regarding boost, I hate the Turbo feeling of the R34 outside of the novel "lets hit 160kmph real quick". It's a really fun car to drive in many ways but I always have more fun in my commodore, feel like I drive better, confident in control, more angle, better skids etc. I like going fast but strait lines bore me, I'll tune out and sit at 98ks on a strait but give me corners and well yeah :)

I'm happy to do lots of fabrication work, I work in steel and transport. My Dads an amazing welder and engineer.
I can see there's a fair bit of fabrication work with either the LS swap or the Twins on an Eco. They'll both need mod plating, custom sumps and oil control bits and will both need custom exhaust fab.

My parts list for the LS is at $7k - second hand engine with kms and unknown lifespan ahead...
LS1 Engine $2,100 - getting some accessories with this.
4L80 Auto $1,200 - not the best but it's what's already attached to the engine.
CRS Kit $1,995 Rodshop (includes exhaust which I don't need if I make one myself) mounts, starter.
Wiring & ECU Mods $1,150 Mail Supply & Mod
Oil Pump $180 Mellings
Water Pump $100 GMB
Fuel Pump $50 Aeroflow
Front Gasket Kit $100 Fel-Pro
Radiator $170 eBay
Still need:
Custom tail shaft
??

Turbo's - fully rebuilt fresh engine
$7,894
Head Gasket $255
Sump Gasket $30
Conrod Bearing Set $82
Main Bearing Set $109
Camshaft Bearing Set
Main Cap Gurdle $430
Main Studs $85
Head Stud Kit $148
Conrod Bolts $150
Oil Pump Kit $80
Water Pump Kit $50
Cam & Valve Train $1,195 - custom cam maybe
Forged Pistons $1,480
Forged H-Beam Rods $600
Turbos $3,000
Intercooler $200?
Still need:
block work - engine machinist
ECU? Tune?
Crankshaft? Stoker?
Rockers?
Gaskets
Oil system, lines to turbo, diy accumulator? oil cooler, fittings, more hoses... could be over $1k here

Either LS or TT
Steel pipe & Plate for flanges ... raid the scrap bin? lol
sheet stainless for oil baffles - may have a line on free stuff here
Power steering is rubbish, need upgrade here.
Should really do the VT front brake upgrade I've hear about for the VS
LSD - assuming this isn't in the budget and will be a later funds addition.
Better catch can maybe.
Oil temp gauge to go with the oil pressure gauge I bought recently.
Custom acrylic interior panels.
Remove aircon
Electric standalone demister?
BBG Billet Oil Pressure Plate looks interesting...
(and a whole new chassis so I don't have abs and air bags)

That's when I did the big end bearing: https://photos.app.goo.gl/KpQtuK7WhmyTsj5K9
 
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_R_J_K_

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Been playing around with this engine builder sim.
It's all just bs fun... but then again it get's interestingly close results to real world specs in some cases.

That's supposed to be close to what twin GT2554's will do with a close to factory cam, 9.4 compression, 91 octane and supporting mods.

Is that Automation? It's a great game, but in no way are those results realistic - not even close (it's cam profiling slider is in no way how a cam works). You need to be looking at completed builds with dynographs from reputable tuners. At a minimum would look at build like Iblown's or Terafi, or the turbo builds on L67Torque. There was a purple TT VS in street machine years back that was also impressive that pumped out something like 500kw. Another good one was the 13's for 1300 maroon VN with a Buick and an oily second hand turbo on Performance forums.

Regarding boost, I hate the Turbo feeling of the R34 outside of the novel "lets hit 160kmph real quick". It's a really fun car to drive in many ways but I always have more fun in my commodore, feel like I drive better, confident in control, more angle, better skids etc. I like going fast but strait lines bore me, I'll tune out and sit at 98ks on a strait but give me corners and well yeah :)

4L80 Auto $1,200 - not the best but it's what's already attached to the engine.

Going auto but don't like going in straight lines? Come on, a T56 will bolt to it. Don't cut that corner. Also, your Dad's an automotive engineer that's also a Government signatory for automotive modification? If that's the case you're sweet. Having said that though, for you to feel more confident your commo, what's your suspension setup currently like? Clutch kicking with an Ecotec should be easier because of it's extra displacement, but suspension wise the R34 should run laps around the commo even in average form.

If you hate the turbo feel of an RB in a heavy R34, I guarantee you'll hate the LS (especially in a VS), moreso if you turbocharge it (are you expecting these setups won't
get to 160km/h real quick?). There will be an order of magnitude more torque if the R34 you drove was relatively stock. What you're trying to do is a paradox, you don't like the power of an R34, but you want to build this nuts large displacement V8?

How many LS cars have you driven before? From your posts you sound like you haven't had much experience with them or their characteristics. I think you'd probably be far better of spending that 11k on something factory that already has an LS because realistically, VP-VZ with IRS are the same car with almost identical suspension setups and you won't have any build time or need to worry about compliance (VE would be better because of it's superior suspension). Drive that around for a while, take it to the track, tinker with it, blah blah blah, then make up your mind. This thread sounds like the beginning of a neverending project (it will be far from ASAP like you want), you want the build to do everything with this arbitrary image of what it should be in your mind. You need to sit down and do the pros and cons of each build, and what the use case and tangible goals (without quoting arbitrary HP numbers for goals) for it actually is and what you'll actually use it for.
 
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Draimond

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I did say that i know that automation isnt realistic. I also pointed out that it got almost spot on with the factory spec. Interesting, but not trying to prove a point.

Dads not an automotive engineer, he's general and construction. If I can fit a t56 into the budget I will but its not my biggest priority off that bat. I didn't see any that looked worth buying for under $4k. Idk why but LS motors are rare atm at qld wreckers. Did a ring around and only found 1 in s.e. qld. Gearbox is just what ever happens to be bolted up to it.
Idm the auto these days. Used to be nuts for a manual but over the last 4 or 5 years its been nice cruising auto especially after playing with an eaton 18 speed all day. Id probably forget to use the clutch. :p

Existing suspension is low, fairly worn and standard. Nothing special. If anything I had been finding that the mostly stock eco could use one size narrower rear tyres to help ease up on grip. Could be the weight, could be that I've mainly been in a VS for a decade now. I did say the R34 is fun, played with tyre pressures a bit in that to help with oversteer balance, but the lack of power bellow boost isnt something Ive adjusted too. Its also auto so that makes a huge difference. I wasnt saying I dont like the power in the R34, just the delivery. Its just got a bigger IC, boost controller, GFB bov, hicas delete, a tune and adjustable coilovers. Definetly faster particularly through the corners.
My idea for TT eco was 2 T25s, na compression, on boost by 3k rpm or less and no s given if it doesnt rev past 5k.

Basically the only thing Im sure off is that i want to stick to the VR VS body. Havnt driven an LS. Drove a bunch of the boss 302s, XR6 turbos and a couple holden 5s thru friends and work stuff in the past.

Got quoted $200 to do the custom tailshaft for the LS. Its actually starting to look like the cheaper option. Havnt said that, I dont know how the fuel line setup goes and what I need for that.

My pros and cons list didnt help. If it wasnt for the social distancing thing atm id be out there talking to people and checking out setups etc.
 

_R_J_K_

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You'd be far better off buying a complete wreck/donor car (look at write-off auctions) otherwise you'll pay through the nose for the components you need individually and you can factor the cost of a gearbox into that too. Avoid wreckers anywhere you can and try to buy privately. T56 can be had for $800-1.2k-ish from private sales depending how close to a major city you are (same for engines, 2k is a lot for an LS1).

Cheaper is kind of semantics. Every time somebody has asked this question in the past they're always told to double their initial costing to cover all their bases outside of the initial parts buy in. I personally know somebody doing this conversion now and can say that is true. If you're really serious you should decide what you're going to do and stick to it, then take that to an engineer before you commit (or whatever is required for a modplate if that covers it where you live).
 

Draimond

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Spoke to an engineer the other day an got the gov check sheet they use. Mainly emissions and noise.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/V...cle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications Looking at section LA2.

There's a vx ss for $3500 about 1000kms away on car sales but the seller wont answer their phone or reply to messages. Next cheapest is $6k or so with an auto. I don't think I could make $3k back in selling unused parts. I'm close to Brisbane. Looks like anything car performance related tends to be cheaper and more available in the southern states. Saying to find stuff privately is all well and good if you can if it.

I was quoted $2kish for the engine with all the accessories, ecu and loom. If it was bare I'd agree that $2k is a bit high.
I'm willing to get the engine today and start the ball rolling. Need to send and ECU and loom down to CRS asap. They quoted me a 2 week turn around. That will give me time to have a look at the engine, see if it needs a freshen up and make the exhaust. Found a flange drawing online, but I'll check it against the the engine when I get it.
 

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After ringing 20 something wreckers this morning I found an LS1 with a T56!

Put down a deposit, it's fully dressed with ECU etc $3,300. 190,000 kms on the engine.
Should be ready to pick up next week, assuming I can get across the Qld/NSW border, otherwise it will need to go onto freight.
Qld wreckers all wanted $2500 for an engine and $2k to $4k for a T56 IF you can find one.

1 - Need to find a hydraulic pedal setup. The T5 I have is cable unfortunately.
Clutch master cylinder, clutch fluid reservoir, res to master hose, master to slave hose. Getrag pedal bracket.
2 - Decide if I want the full CRS kit or just the starter motor kit and tuff mounts instead, then diy the headers and trans mount.
3 - Fuel system.
 

gtrboyy

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That's not too bad best I've seen lately is 2.5k for ls1/4l60...t56 closer to 4k mark which start making 6l more attractive but then more parts required.

190k on it you'll want to do few things to engine before putting it in like gaskets,front & rear seals...getting video footage so if's it's tad noisey then lifter/springs & check cltuch wear...much easier to do out of car & should be reliable for yonks.

vs hydraulic clutch setup or mal woods..comes down to patience and/or budget.

Don't make extractors save the headaches buy pacemakers...heaps of dudes say they fit easiest with clearance.
 
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