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VY SS - Starting troubles with Check Engine + Small X on Climate Control

Benny_77

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Hello forum experts. Before I launch into my problem I just wanted to say was a great forum this is and how much info I've gotten from here so far.

So, onto my problem. I have a VY SS ute and in the last couple of weeks it's developed an electrical gremlin of sorts. I'm going to put as much detail as I know here but if I've left something critical out please let me know. The problem first surface a week or so ago when I went to start it. The engine fired up, got to the 800RPM (or so) idle and then just died. At the same time I also got a check engine light and a small "X" or cross symbol on the climate control display. Everything on the car is stock, nothing aftermarket.
Turning the ignition off and retrying resulted in exactly the same thing - check engine + a start/fire up then an immediate die. All fuses checked out ok (both in the engine bay and under the steering column). A couple of the relays that are on most of the time (Acc, IGN, Engine Cont) were discoloured, but the relays all still "clicked" when needed and swapping them around with a good looking one nearby didn't make any difference. The sockets of the discoloured relays looked fine, no overheated plastic or anything. Relays were still "firm" in the sockets.

I got into the limited diagnostic info available on the dash (holding mode+set on ignition on) and the only thing out of the ordinary I could see was the coolant temp displaying at -40C. Also the "Trouble codes" were displaying 0000100000000000 on the bottom line. I haven't been able to fault find this any further.

I tried looking at anything obvious in the engine bay, and unplugged and re-inserted most sensors I could reach - no difference. Still a start followed by an immediate die. I could hear the fuel pump priming for a couple of seconds before cranking the engine over. I admitted defeat, left the car and was planning on towing it home another day. I went back for another go at working it out that afternoon (around 4 hrs later) and ended up accidentally going through the options setup menu on the dash again - just went through it with no changes and got back to the dash. Check engine light gone, engine fires up and runs. I cautiously drive it home. The turn it off and go to start again - starts and runs fine.

Off to a mechanic friend the next day who puts in on a scan tool (I'm not sure of the make/model) and couldn't really see anything.

Flash forward to today, and I jump in the car to start it in the morning - gremlin shows up again. Check engine, little "X" in the climate control and engine start followed by an immediate die. Coolant temp showing -40C in the dash diagnostics again. I'm probably paying more attention this time, but the full sequence of an attempted start goes....
1. Ignition to "ON" (notice cooling fans are running which is not normal)
2. Around 1 second later I can hear a relay click in the front passenger kick area (PIM??) and the little "X" symbol is displayed
3. Dash displayed system check.... followed by OK... almost immediately followed by the check engine symbol + beeps.
4. Go to start engine. Cranks, fires, then dies
Little padlock symbol is not lit on the dash, and I have tried it after unlocking with the key button before cranking. Same behaviour.

I removed the battery terminals, cleaned them up and replaced them (they didn't look too bad). When I went to the ignition on position, the small X wasn't there to start with, but I got the check engine + little X before cranking it over. Still fired up, then died immediately.

Next I looked at the coolant temp sensor, thinking that it might be stuffed (but a little surprised that it would stop the engine from running completely). The voltage on the plug when removed was 5V, seemed ok. I couldn't get my meter leads on the sensor while it was attached to the block, so I removed it and tested it - around 2.5k ohm which is pretty much where it should be at room temp. Damn! I refitted that sensor and tried again. No X on the climate control, no check engine, and it fired up and started. I try a few stops and starts, all good. Fires up and runs every time. I'm thinking I've found it, and to test my theory I stop the engine and unplug the coolant temp sensor (should read -40C again). I go to start the engine - no X on the climate control, engine starts and runs, but after 10s or so I get a check engine warning (but still no X on the climate display). Engine keeps running, although a little bit rougher than usual.

So I don't feel like I've really found anything at all - I've got a gut feel that the sensor reading open circuit is the sign of a larger failure that just seems to come and go.

So forum experts, thank you for making it this far through my massive story... Where do I look next? Is there a scan tool or similar that can look back through previous engine error codes, or do they just look at the current status of the engine and sensors? I did call an auto electrician nearby, but he's tied up with other jobs for a week and a half.
 
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Benny_77

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A little bit more info (only seems to add to the confusion though).
When the fault is up on the dash, and the cluster displays the coolant temp as -40C, a scan tool plugged in can read the temp from the PCM correctly.

I'm thinking some sort of communications problem between the PCM, PIM and BCM?
 

Benny_77

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Another reply - feel a bit like I'm talking to myself here, but I'll keep going in case this can help someone else out in the future.

So I got a mobile auto-elec to run a scan over the car with a snap-on tool and sure enough comms between the BCM/Cluster and the PCM are failing. This then triggers the "Anti Theft Fuel Enable" which is what I'm guessing causes the engine to die straight after it fires up.

So I'm pointing the finger at the PIM, seeing as how I can get real time data from the OBD2 port directly from the PCM, and the cluster and BCM seem to be behaving.

But now I'm in a bit of a sticky situation as I'm not sure when to get a replacement PIM, and then I'll need to get someone with a Tech 2 to re-link the PIM to the PCM and BCM.

From anyone with experience doing this, and I'm better off getting an auto-elec to do the whole job, or should I send it off to one of the places that can repair/reprogram them (Google pointed me towards Injectronics).
 
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BlackVXGTS

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What are the actual DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that you are getting? The PIM has specific DTCs as shown below. Is your remote working OK and turning off the immobiliser?

1648630131054.png
 

Benny_77

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What are the actual DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) that you are getting? The PIM has specific DTCs as shown below. Is your remote working OK and turning off the immobiliser?

View attachment 235780

Key works - both from the remote buttons and in the ignition (padlock symbol on cluster goes out).

The codes present are "17 - PCM Data Lost" and " P0118 - Coolant Temperature Circuit Signal High". Then after an attempted start I get "P1626 - ANIT Theft System Fuel Enable Circuit".

As I mentioned earlier, the coolant temp sensor is fine, and reading correctly (verified by diags directly to the PCM rather than through the cluster).

The PIM is failing, but I'm unsure if it's on the comms line between the PCM and PIM, or on the line between the PIM and BCM/Cluster.
 

BlackVXGTS

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Where did you get the "I7 - PCM Data Lost" from - it's not a VY DTC. Info on P0118 and P1626 FYI.
 

Attachments

  • GEN III V8 PCM – DTC P0118.pdf
    328.1 KB · Views: 16
  • GEN III V8 PCM – DTC P1626.pdf
    677.6 KB · Views: 15

Benny_77

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Where did you get the "I7 - PCM Data Lost" from - it's not a VY DTC. Info on P0118 and P1626 FYI.

I read it from the screen of the scan tool that was used on the car (a snap on Ethos Edge). It was strange that it wasn't reported like the other code, e.g. Pxxxx or Bxxxx, but it did make sense with what we were seeing on the car.
 

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When it happens is your security LED still flashing? It's good to keep an eye on to see if your headed in the right direction. Once you unlock, sit and key up the ignition to reds you shouldn't see a peep out of it until about 30 seconds after the key is removed, or you lock up
 

Benny_77

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When it happens is your security LED still flashing? It's good to keep an eye on to see if your headed in the right direction. Once you unlock, sit and key up the ignition to reds you shouldn't see a peep out of it until about 30 seconds after the key is removed, or you lock up

No, security led on the cluster (red padlock light) and the flashing LED on the radio unit both go out if I press the unlock button the key remote, or if I insert and turn the key in the ignition.
 

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i would be unplugging your abs module for a time to test
the little X means a loss of communication
so could be bcm off line for whatever reason
abs modules are known to corrupt the data stream
 
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