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VZ key failure

Discussion in 'VZ Holden Commodore (2004 - 2006)' started by Juan, Aug 22, 2008.

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  1. Aug 22, 2008 #1
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    I have just had a key for my VZ stop working the electronics that is.
    The car yard says it will cost $120 to replace it.
    Does anyone know if the battery can be replaced inside as I can't see how it comes apart .
    Can you buy cheaper non genuine key electronics?
     
    Juan, Aug 22, 2008
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  2. Aug 22, 2008 #2
    andrewmac

    andrewmac Member

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    They key comes appart by unscewing the base but Im not sure if the battery can be replaced though
     
    andrewmac, Aug 22, 2008
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  3. Aug 22, 2008 #3
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    The only thing that unscrews is the two small screws holding the metal key shaft. The plastic electronic housing appears to be sealed as far as I can tell.
     
    Juan, Aug 22, 2008
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  4. Aug 22, 2008 #4
    andyman

    andyman The Only 6sp VZ Wagon

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    short answer is no, if you have a price breakdown of the parts and labour, check to see if it is cheaper to buy the genuine key head off ebay then take that to your dealer to have programmed, ive seen them rather cheap on ebay
     
    andyman, Aug 22, 2008
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  5. Aug 22, 2008 #5
    twinturf

    twinturf New Member

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    Juan I had the same problem.

    I found that if you put the key in the ignition and turn the ignition on then use the buttons on the key to lock and unlock the door it will activate the key.

    My key worked after doing the above.
     
    twinturf, Aug 22, 2008
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  6. Aug 22, 2008 #6
    minitsbay

    minitsbay New Member

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    the key heads are sealed
    they need to be split open and reglued
    as for chaning the battery they are spot welded in so up to you if you decide to play around with it
    battery is either ecr2025 or ecr2032 cant remember off top of my head

    we do them $99.95 cut and programmed (mr minit)

    cheers
     
    minitsbay, Aug 22, 2008
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  7. Aug 22, 2008 #7
    Benboy

    Benboy Well-Known Member

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    In the meantime why not use the spare key that came with the car. By the way, which State are you in?
     
    Benboy, Aug 22, 2008
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  8. Aug 25, 2008 #8
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    Thanks for the kind responses , I will try the fix sugestions and see how I go.
    Some good advice here . I have been using the spare key .
    It turns out that the car is still under an extended warranty so they are saying that they will fix it under warranty. I forgot about the extended 5 year bit. Thanks again all .
     
    Juan, Aug 25, 2008
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  9. Aug 25, 2008 #9
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    Well you are bang on the money. I did what you said and the stupid thing works fine now.
    It is really weird .
    Thanks so much for that.
    It says in the book that if the battery is getting flat it will have reduced range.
    However it seems fine now and works about 20 feet away no worries.
    So I will have to cancell the warranty service appointment because they will check it and say it is fine and I am going to look like a real dumb ass.
    I would love to know what is actually going on here.
    has anyone noticed the little metal stud that projects from the key case.
    It touches against a metal ring around the ignition.
    Also the key blade has a metal connection inside that dissapears into the case. It has to have an electrical purpose of some kind ?
     
    Juan, Aug 25, 2008
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  10. Aug 27, 2008 #10
    andyman

    andyman The Only 6sp VZ Wagon

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    this is what the computer uses to determine if its the right key inserted into the ignition, it links with with the key head and turn the immobilizer off and enables the car to be started.
     
    andyman, Aug 27, 2008
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  11. Aug 27, 2008 #11
    andyman

    andyman The Only 6sp VZ Wagon

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    your half right, this wont program the key - if it did everyone would be doing it.

    what has happened here is the key has lost sequence with the bcm (body control module), the key head and bcm use a 'rolling code' security system,

    what this means is the key and bcm change the codes between the two (but still permanently linked to each other) and over time if the key isnt used or there is a glitch, the two can loose sequence, hence the central locking wont activate,

    by putting the key back in the ignition once the car has been opened, the key and bcm will synchronize and start operating again.
     
    andyman, Aug 27, 2008
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  12. Aug 27, 2008 #12
    Weekend Warrior

    Weekend Warrior Waghoon

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    to recharge the key put it in the ignition, hold down the unlock button while firing the engine, should recharge it.
     
    Weekend Warrior, Aug 27, 2008
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  13. Aug 27, 2008 #13
    andyman

    andyman The Only 6sp VZ Wagon

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    myth, the batteries wont recharge
     
    andyman, Aug 27, 2008
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  14. Aug 27, 2008 #14
    twinturf

    twinturf New Member

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    Hi Andyman

    I never proclaimed my method would program the key -- I just mention how to re-activate the key.

    Cheers Twinturf
     
    twinturf, Aug 27, 2008
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  15. Aug 27, 2008 #15
    andyman

    andyman The Only 6sp VZ Wagon

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    yes i know, i was just pointing out what happened in that situation, if you have a brand new key head and push the button in the ignition, it wont start the engine (well shouldnt unless there is something wrong)
     
    andyman, Aug 27, 2008
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  16. Aug 29, 2008 #16
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    Thanks " andyman " that makes a lot more sense of it .
    Why my key failed is a mystery as I had just driven to Sydney no problems and the car was parked at my daughters place. 48 hours later the key would not work.
    What you said is exactly what they said to me the otherday at the Holden service center . Puting it in the ignition just resynchronises it .
    So that brings me to the $1 000 000 question.
    How do you reprogram a new key head to your own car?
     
    Juan, Aug 29, 2008
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  17. Aug 29, 2008 #17
    andyman

    andyman The Only 6sp VZ Wagon

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    holden, or a reputable workshop that has the capability with a compatible scan tool,

    the mr minit ones can be pretty dicey
     
    andyman, Aug 29, 2008
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  18. Sep 1, 2008 #18
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    I guess we are getting into a security area here so I can see that this kind of information is taboo.
    Ok I understand.
    You say that the key system uses a rolling code and that a key that is not used can get out of sequence.
    However that is opposite to what happened to me.
    The key that I allways use got out of sequence and my wifes key that has not been in the ignition for over 12 months was still in sequence.
    So this leads me to another question.

    Does the key change its sequence to the car computer or does the computer sequence to the key?
     
    Juan, Sep 1, 2008
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  19. Sep 1, 2008 #19
    Doctor Bob

    Doctor Bob Grandpa

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    the problem will be either the key is faulty or the BCM is faulty, i would replace the key to see what happens, this fixes 90% of issues like you have described.

    the BCM changes to the next code in the sequence at each RF signal it gets, the key is supposed to do the same, you will find yours isnt.


    Rob
     
    Doctor Bob, Sep 1, 2008
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  20. Sep 4, 2008 #20
    Juan

    Juan New Member

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    My key is working ok again after I did as twinturf suggested earlier in the thread. I am just trying to come to grips with what transpired to suddenly desyncronise my key .
    I am starting to think that it is possible that these keys are prone to being upsett by strong magnetic fields or RF signals or something like that.
    I did play around with my handheld UHF before I left for Sydney and the keys were in my pocket.
     
    Juan, Sep 4, 2008
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