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Warm up the beast first !

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by Daniel Souza, May 12, 2019.

  1. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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    I just wanted to share some data I logged from my VFII LS3 to illustrate why we shouldn't use the temperature gauge on the cluster as a "Ready to Chop Some Fords" indicator.

    TempLog.JPG
     
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  2. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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  3. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    i always warm up a little then drive as normal till actual oil temps get to around 90c then whole drive line should be warmed up also so ur good to go
     
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  4. panhead

    panhead Well-Known Member

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    I have oil temp gauges in some of my cars and it usually takes close to 10 minutes for them to reach operating temperature which is long after the water temp.

    The oil temp gauges in the Euros keep flashing until they reach safe operating temperature to warn you not to give the car too many revs.



    .
     
  5. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    My Maloo has an oil temp gauge, usually takes about 20 minutes of driving to get to normal temp.
     
  6. Mayuri Krab

    Mayuri Krab Member

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    My old BMW (e90 335i) had an oil temperature gauge instead of a water one and it usually takes over 10 minutes just for it to move from the lowest point (70 deg C) and about 15 minutes for it to reach it's normal temperature of 100 to 110 deg C.

    I notice that the water temperature gauge on the VF goes up very fast even for coolant, usually be at the normal point (1 mark under 1/2) with like 1 to 2 minutes? My old skyline would take like 5 minutes before the coolant gauge moved to normal position...
     
  7. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    Are those intake air temps normal for a n/a car?
    Or is this a blown+intercooled LS3?
    I've really only ever seen logs from my turbo (intercooled) car & didn't expect to see similar intake temps for an n/a car.
     
  8. [paradox]

    [paradox] Active Member

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    one of the first things i noticed vs my VE.
     
  9. lordsnipe

    lordsnipe Member

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    I haven't looked how the coolant travels on the VF, but on my Fiesta ST, it actually has a bypass valves in addition to the thermostat where "
    the coolant flow through the engine is specifically restricted or stagnated in the warm-up phase. This restriction of the coolant flow makes it possible for the engine components to warm up faster. The result is a significant reduction in the emissions of harmful pollutants and an improvement in fuel economy (i.e. reduced friction) during the warm-up phase. Both solenoid valves are controlled by the PCM.", hence very quick operating coolant temps.

    Oh, and the "normal" range is something like 50 degrees C wide too. Anyone know what values the VF temp gauge range is?
     
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  10. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    depends on the driving conditions and intake.
    I log mine with and it has an OTR.
    Freeway/urban cruising will see my intake temps maybe 5-6 degrees above outside temp.
    WOT will see it drop to ambient temp within a few seconds.

    Heavy traffic driving, I can see my intake temps 20 degrees above outside temps.
    Again WOT will drop it down pretty quickly.

    Not sure how the standard intake goes though.
    Probably not as hot in certain scenarios as the MAF is near the airbox (OTR above radiator( but doubt it would cool down as quick at WOT.

    Original post.
    I find the same log as you. But i'm dealing with <5 degree temps at times and it takes a lot longer to heat up the oils.
    I don't bury the foot until I see it up above 80 degrees personally.
     
  11. abuch47

    abuch47 Active Member

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    What about the other end how long does it take to cool down?
    Often have to do short trips and just an hour ago got in after cruising to coolant temp before lunch. Then after lunch was still at water temp but wonder if the oil and intake were ok.

    **** I had a whole tray of tools and 1/8th of a tank disappeared in 15kms to work, thought I may get stuck there. sitting on the empty line but took 4 litres less than max so wasnt too bad.

    Other crazy thing was could definitely see the heat coming out the bonnet vents which is good to know it works. first time the sunlight has lined it up to be visible.
     
  12. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    Once the oil is up to temp, say 100 degrees and you stop, it will hang around that (-20%)for 30 mins then start dropping. BUT depends on how hot/cold it is ambient.
    I just normally use it for first start up.
    Adelaide hills is about 2 degrees in the morning this time of year. Takes a good 10-15 to get it up to 80 degrees. Summer time when its rocking 30+ degrees, it takes 5 minutes.

    Its just taught me to realize that although coolant temp is at its operating range with 5 minutes, does not mean the engine oil is warm and ready for a flogging!
    warm oil/cold coolant (would ever happen) = mash pedal
    Cold oil/warm coolant = grandma pedal
     
  13. abuch47

    abuch47 Active Member

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    ^Something I've learned from this forum and reading about LS and mechanical symphony elsewhere that accounts for all cars
     
  14. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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    That’s stuck in traffic , pretty bad. The ecu would be taking a lot of timing off.

    I think that’s the reason the air intake mod is very popular. The stock box take a long time to cool down after start moving.

    On the freeway it is usually 10-15C above ambient temperature.
     
  15. snortings

    snortings Active Member

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    Yep, I've driven both series 1 and 2 VE as well as my VF. The series 1 VE is very slow to move but when I got my Series 2 SV6 it moved pretty quickly. It's the same in the VF compared to the VE Series 2.
     
  16. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    the newer the engines the sooner they have to heat up to meet emissions
     
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  17. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    What’s in & around the stock intake system such that it heats up like that? I assume it’s all plastic, hence my surprise.

    Yeah that heat-soak and traffic vs moving thing is even worse in a (home-designed so not exactly professional) turbo/intercooler setup. I don’t have an ambient temp sensor, but before making the above post I checked some of the logs for my 70’s Volvo, and the intake temp is getting up to 60 degrees stuck in traffic versus high teens while moving consistently at 80km/h+ (being in Sydney about the lowest the ambient temps can have been is maybe 15). And most of my intake piping is steel, whereas the Commodore is (I thought) lower-thermal-mass plastic.

    Do the OTR intakes reduce temps by following a less circuitous route & for a shorter path so the air “touches” warm-stuff less? Or does it just go past fewer heated bits?
     
  18. markalan1two

    markalan1two Smile and wave boys !!!!

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    Even with OTR or Cold air intakes low speeds with little to no airflow heat soak is always going to be a problem, OTR's have to deal with a radiator which as the name suggests radiates heat, and cold air intake still snake though past hot radiators and engines so soak plenty of it up.
     
  19. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    So lower OTR intake air temps are purely about ... what, higher flow &/or a more direct path meaning a lower percentage of the intake air mass ‘swirling’ against the heated walls of the intake?
     
  20. Murdoch

    Murdoch Active Member

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    correct.
    WOT timing with cold intake is way more advanced than WOT with hot temps, and you can feel the difference in power between the two 100%.
    That's what my torque app is telling me anyway, far less KR too when cold.

    10-15c above ambient?
    That's with a standard airbox? I honestly thought it would be better than an OTR as far away from radiator and the IAT is near the filter box, not radiator like an OTR.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019

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