Was the Alloytec a dud?

[the_boozer]

Go for a trip to a couple of dunger yards and see how many k's the average vz has, how many did 500 thousand k's? Jolleys and places like that must have heaps of them.
Agree with EYY about the 3.4L toyota 5vz-fe abit like old falcon motors throw them away they don't sell the wrecker told us.

 

[Nitro_X]

Thankfully my SV6 alloytech (2007 S1) has been reliable. The only problem so far has been the water pump and top coolant seal.
I checked the timing chain issue via my VIN, it has the updated improved timing chain...phew

I do service it regularly with high grade oil and change the filter every service.
It only has 141,000 kms on the clock, low for it's age.
Would like to install an oil catch can but haven't got around to it :/
Only run it on BP ultimate or Caltex Vortex 98 fuel, hopefully this helps with general reliability on the engines fuel/ignition system

.

 

[_R_J_K_]

Wow did Ford do something great or what!

I wouldn't say it's any more sophisticated (there are aspects to the Barra that are more basic but in a good/reliable way). To me it pretty much seems to be the Alloytec in a straight six configuration with an iron block and more displacement instead. They both use similar cam phasing and are both DOHC. Both of their LPi systems are both really good too (just throwing that in there). would have liked to have seen them use an alloy block for the Barra, but hey, at least you can put like 1000hp through them. Too bad the Falcon itself made too many compromises/cut corners though.

Where Ford Aus made a good decision was to not position their 6 as a purely budget/base option and put the R&D into turbocharging it (which would have been minimal work, literally strap a turbo on, change pistons, and tune for emissions). Like I said in my other post GM just performances stuff by using more displacement instead of actually innovating or doing hard things. Kinda like the ZB Commodore/Insignia, there were some awesome sounding ones on paper (TT with AWD and manual) that might have rivaled to some extent the Focus RS or Evo or WRX, but we got boring ass ones. I guess there's a stigma with Commodore 6s from the past as not worth investing in because they've generally been seen as pretty cheap.

Would like to install an oil catch can but haven't got around to it :/

Make sure you plumb it back, you still need the suction of the intake for the PCV system to work properly and you won't take a performance hit (venting to atmosphere won't make it run any better). If your catch can is any good and baffled properly you won't get any oil in the intake.

 

[Calaber]

The impression I have of the Alloytec is that it was unnecessarily complex. Were 3 timing chains really the best way to drive four camshafts? Could gears have been used to replace the primary chain and shorten the lengths of the secondary chains? Could two chains have been used instead of 3? And finally, could a cam drive shaft setup have been used? I've only seen this setup once on an old Morris /Wolseley 6 cylinder SOHC, where a vertical shaft with helical bronze gears connected directly from the crank to the cam but it would have lasted forever.

 

[_R_J_K_]

The impression I have of the Alloytec is that it was unnecessarily complex. Were 3 timing chains really the best way to drive four camshafts? Could gears have been used to replace the primary chain and shorten the lengths of the secondary chains? Could two chains have been used instead of 3? And finally, could a cam drive shaft setup have been used?

I mentioned Audi before, design and implementation were two different things, have a read of this - https://jalopnik.com/here-s-why-the-v8-audi-s4-is-an-awful-used-car-1676466510
Timing chain and it's associated components are supposed to be a life time parts (life of the engine), but when you cut corners and inadvertently make them a not life time part because you're cheap, then it becomes complex because you actually have to take the thing apart which wasn't really supposed to happen. If you look at the Nissan VQ engine or the Toyota GR engine (pretty much Toyota and Nissan Alloytecs) or heeeaps of the Euro engines, they also have three chains (although their layout and chain routing makes a bit more sense) and haven't heard much about those on the level of the Alloytec (although that doesn't really mean much). IMO I'd reckon that 95-99% of cars with chains that aren't terrible would never have a problem. Last chain I personally heard of that needed to be replaced that wasn't on a Commo was my friends DOHC V6 Vitara, the chain was 20 years old. Mostly you remove that part of the equation if you have a timing belt, but the downside is it only works because you're forced to replace it at intervals.

Manufacturers look to where they can cheap out and save money - e.g. they look for something that costs $1 they don't really need, or can be provided for 50c cheaper with a different material, or they can use a different one that kinda does the same thing but doesn't cost as much etc. Across the production of millions of cars that money ads up and ends up being a big saving on paper, the flipside is that you cheap out on the wrong thing and you end up with the reputation of the Alloytec. Lesson to be learned if you're a manufacturer is that if there's one part not to cheap out on for engine production, it's timing chains and chain guides.

Cam drive would be expensive I reckon, not to mention it would probably be extremely bulky for four cam shafts (even if it only had two "feeder/main" shafts). Not to mention, I think it would be difficult to adapt to use for VVT, particularly with the oil based cam phasers all the manufacturers are using now. There's probably also some reason that nobody that uses that style of drive for oil pumps anymore like they did in the 5L and a bunch of American iron.

I know it's not the style you speak of, but OS Giken did a direct gear drive DOHC head at some point in time for the Nissan L series. Have a look at it and you'll see why it's pretty much non existent in production cars, it takes up a lot of real estate on the front of the engine and adds a lot more moving parts to the equation - http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/02/engine-porn-os-giken-tc24-b1z/

 

[Wats_in_a_name]

I must be the odd one out, I've had a VY and then a VZ and prefer the VZ. It has to be said that my VZ is a Series 2 and the VY was a Series 1 and there were issues with the VY such as power steering hoses that were ironed out later on. I must have got one of the good alloytec engines as I've had the car for 7 years. I've had a couple of minor issues like needing an injector replaced and coolant spilling because of a faulty cap. However my car is now 13 years old and I have found it to be a better car than the VY. So far so good with no issues such as timing chains or sludging. That being said I get the oil changed regularly.

 

[greenacc]

This is my tenth year of owning an Alloytec and it's been a great engine for me and still goes like new as we head towards 300,000ks. The biggest issue it's had was a leaking thermostat. It even survived a radiator explosion a few years ago. 5W40 full synthetic does the job nicely.

 

[lmoengnr]

5W40 full synthetic does the job nicely.

Penrite HPR5?

 

[greenacc]

Penrite HPR5?

I use Synpower. I've heard it's very similar to HPR5 but I started with Synpower so I'm sticking with it for now. I use HPR5 in other cars if I see it on sale.

 

[lmoengnr]

I use Synpower. I've heard it's very similar to HPR5 but I started with Synpower so I'm sticking with it for now. I use HPR5 in other cars if I see it on sale.

That's good! HPR5 is almost a 'universal' oil, suitable for many different engines.