what did you do to your car today?

[Skylarking]

And we all should abide by the workshop manual.....

Shall we go into how good designers are or shall we just leave it alone?

EDIT: If someone has cross threaded a bolt/nut, the torque wrench is still masking the foobarred item...It doesn't prevent it....

Yes, we should abide by the service manual and use good engineering practice. If it’s possible to do some task more effectively, then the dealer service guys should feed that method back to the manufacturer so it can be assessed and the workshop manual updated appropriately. That’s the crux of continuous improvement

What we shouldn’t do is shortcut good engineering practices which is to hand wind nuts, bolts spark plugs by hand and use a torque wrench… which then provides the correct torque setting and repeatability of torque settings.

Inappropriate use of a torque wrench on a cross threaded bolt is already an activity that occurs post the operator error which caused the cross threading. So in that context, yes I agree a torque wrench will mask problems for such ham fisted mechanics.

As for good engineering and design, sadly it’s often undone by accounting. We don’t need to go into Holden’s foobars like removing the fuel pump access hatch in the VF…

Sadly no profession is immune to poor quality workers as you’ve stated yourself; some just don’t give a **** about doing good work

I agree how any nut/bolt/plug should be done.....However in the context of what @losh1971 has had happen, it is apparent the person that did those plugs either couldn't be stuffed stopping when the binding started to occur, or is that stupid didn't know it was occurring. So even if a torque wrench was used, it still wouldn't have prevented the problem.

Unfortunately this is another instance where common sense failed and someone else happens to be paying the price for another persons stupidity

Yes that’s true… now it’s clearer what you meant earlier by torque wrench masking the problem for those stupid mechanics out there

I still think a good auto mechanics must use a torque wrench for all critical fasteners or components, after hand starting them until they seat. And most fasteners or components are critical if vibrations can make things fall off or leak.. In my book, lack of using of a torque wrench is simply a sign that speed or work is more important than quality of work

 

[J_D 2.0]

I still think a good auto mechanics must use a torque wrench for all critical fasteners or components, after hand starting them until they seat. And most fasteners or components are critical if vibrations can make things fall off or leak.. In my book, lack of using of a torque wrench is simply a sign that speed or work is more important than quality of work

Good thing I’m not an auto mechanic then because I wouldn’t be a good one! I almost never use a torque wrench unless it’s on internal engine components (head bots, conrod bolts, main cap bolts etc) or things that are highly critical to engine operation like the harmonic balancer that I’ll be replacing soon.

I used to use a torque wrench all the time in my earlier days working on cars but after working on so many cars and stripping down hundreds of them working at a wrecking yard I’ve got a good feel for how much elbow grease is sufficient.

I‘ve never had a fastener come undone that I’ve done up and I’ve never stripped a fastener out by getting too keen with it. Any supposed mechanic who’s stripping threads or going ape shite on doing up spark plugs should be farking barred from being one.

If an amateur like me can get it right every time and a bone fide mechanic can’t then they need to give up their day job!

 

[vc commodore]

Yes, we should abide by the service manual and use good engineering practice. If it’s possible to do some task more effectively, then the dealer service guys should feed that method back to the manufacturer so it can be assessed and the workshop manual updated appropriately. That’s the crux of continuous improvement

What we shouldn’t do is shortcut good engineering practices which is to hand wind nuts, bolts spark plugs by hand and use a torque wrench… which then provides the correct torque setting and repeatability of torque settings.

Inappropriate use of a torque wrench on a cross threaded bolt is already an activity that occurs post the operator error which caused the cross threading. So in that context, yes I agree a torque wrench will mask problems for such ham fisted mechanics.

As for good engineering and design, sadly it’s often undone by accounting. We don’t need to go into Holden’s foobars like removing the fuel pump access hatch in the VF…

Sadly no profession is immune to poor quality workers as you’ve stated yourself; some just don’t give a **** about doing good work

Yes that’s true… now it’s clearer what you meant earlier by torque wrench masking the problem for those stupid mechanics out there

I still think a good auto mechanics must use a torque wrench for all critical fasteners or components, after hand starting them until they seat. And most fasteners or components are critical if vibrations can make things fall off or leak.. In my book, lack of using of a torque wrench is simply a sign that speed or work is more important than quality of work

A mechanically minded person with some common sense will find an easier way around doing a job, rather than what some manual states....One shouldn't actually rely on it being gospel....However, alot of people rely heavily on these and wonder why a simple task takes 3 times as long as it actually should...

This also applies with problems that crop up....Some one with common sense would realise, if I follow these instructions provided, I will have problems with this part....But if I use my common sense and deviate from the instructions, I can avoid the inherant problems that will occur....

On the issue of torquing bolts up..There are some parts some people on here insist you must torque up otherwise you will strike problems...I have replaced these parts myself and not torqued them up and not struck issues.....But if people wish to use a torque wrench for piece of mind, so be it.....

And finally...Yes there are stupid mechanics out there....That's something that will always exist and with technology being the way it is, it is taking away the home mechanic side of things to be able to fix simple things themselves, meaning we will have to rely on these idiots

 

[vc commodore]

Good thing I’m not an auto mechanic then because I wouldn’t be a good one! I almost never use a torque wrench unless it’s on internal engine components (head bots, conrod bolts, main cap bolts etc) or things that are highly critical to engine operation like the harmonic balancer that I’ll be replacing soon.

I used to use a torque wrench all the time in my earlier days working on cars but after working on so many cars and stripping down hundreds of them working at a wrecking yard I’ve got a good feel for how much elbow grease is sufficient.

I‘ve never had a fastener come undone that I’ve done up and I’ve never stripped a fastener out by getting too keen with it. Any supposed mechanic who’s stripping threads or going ape shite on doing up spark plugs should be farking barred from being one.

If an amateur like me can get it right every time and a bone fide mechanic can’t then they need to give up their day job!

Honestly the only things I use a torque wrench on is engine parts like you stated and when at work, wheel nuts....I only use it on wheel nuts to keep the customer happy...Otherwise a good old fashioned wheel brace would suffice with me....

On the subject of the torque wrench used at work......I can't remember the last time it was calibrated and I have been there 10 years.....In all that time, it has been dropped, kicked across the floor had stuff dropped on it, so the chances of it being correct is very very slim.....But hey, customers seem happy it gets used, so that's all that matters

 

[losh1971]

I think part of the problem is the staff are expected to get a job done in a certain time, bit like a KPI. So at some garages the mechs will go like a bat out of hell just to keep the boss happy.

Whereas years ago my experience was rarely was anything quoted and if you were lucky you might get a rough idea on price. You paid what you paid and the bloke taking your money explained everything and said why it cost this or that, but you'd also get a courtesy call if they found something a miss, which gave you the option to decide on what to do.

Now a days you're not allowed past the tape and you have to assume that the place is not BS'n you like I have experienced over the last few years.

I was surprised the other day when I took my ute in for exhaust mods to stop the coupling rubbing on it. The bloke popped it up on the hoist while I was there dropping it off. He called me in to have a look and explained what I needed, and how he would rectify the issue. I was like whollll, this never happens anymore. I will be going back there if I need some other exhaust work done in the future.

 

[Skylarking]

Good thing I’m not an auto mechanic then because I wouldn’t be a good one! I almost never use a torque wrench unless it’s on internal engine components (head bots, conrod bolts, main cap bolts etc) or things that are highly critical to engine operation like the harmonic balancer that I’ll be replacing soon….

If an amateur like me can get it right every time and a bone fide mechanic can’t then they need to give up their day job!

That’s fair enough on your own car as it’s your choice but at the price I pay for dealer service I expect the job to be done as specified by the manufacturer.

I don’t expect corners to be cut, things like plastic shields bent out of the way (and damaged) to save removing two more bolts, TTY bolts not being replaced cause they know better (especially frustrating when it’s warranty work), scheduled service tasks not done cause they think it isn’t required and other such profitable shortcuts…

But when dealer shortcuts causes problems, it simply ain’t their fault as they see it, they are doing me a favour by saving me service costs… for fixed price services…

That’s why I do my own work… if I fcuk up at least I know I’ve fcuked up. Stuff ups aren’t hidden from me as I’m the one doing the work and as such I deal with it. But I do use a torque wrench as specified cause I’ve got no deadline to meet and taking time has proven worth while.

I’ve also never stripped any nuts, bolts or threads and have never had things fall off.

Privately each to their own but when professionals do work, they should do it professionally and by the book.

I‘d hope aircraft mechanics are more process driven but there have been many crashes because the aircraft mechanic used their years of experiance rather than referencing the repair manual as required, probably to save time. I particularly like the one where a mechanic changed the windscreen bolts and replaced like for like. If he referenced the book he’d have realised the wrong bolts were put in by the last mechanic but in this later case the windscreen blew in flight and the pilot was sucked out but the co pilot grabbed his legs and was somehow able to land.

I’m a firm believer of RTFM, but YMMV and that’s ok…

As is, I work on my own car so I’m fine, but planes, we’ll I don’t want to think about Joe average aircraft mechanic or their skill level or lack off when flying anywhere

 

[Skylarking]

A mechanically minded person with some common sense will find an easier way around doing a job, rather than what some manual states....One shouldn't actually rely on it being gospel....However, alot of people rely heavily on these and wonder why a simple task takes 3 times as long as it actually should...

Workshop procedures are structured the way they are for a variety of reasons one of which is the varied skill level of the workforce that must perform the work ,in a quality and repeatable way, as there are warranty implications. Often problems occur when things aren’t done to process.

And it’s not as if the manufacturer makes some profit by specifying an overly complex repair method when a simpler process which meets the quality goals set by the manufacturer.

So yes, in some ways it’s not wrong for the very skilled to adapt the procedures but the problem we all suffer is how do we know when the person doing the work is one of the very skilled group, what their skills are and whether they’ve considered the same issues as the manufacturer when the procedures were defined. . How do we know that the mechanic has assessed all reasons why the task is structured the way it is in the manual when almost always the driving force is simply to save time on each job as that relates to more $$. And when/if things fcuk up it’s never their fault.

Probably the biggest problem is that I’ve go no way to determine who’s the very skilled mechanics are or whether I’ve got the team monkey working on my car. So I want them to be doing the job as the manufacturer specifies as it take a such issues out of the equation, pure and simple.

 

[UTE042_NZ]

I was surprised the other day when I took my ute in for exhaust mods to stop the coupling rubbing on it. The bloke popped it up on the hoist while I was there dropping it off. He called me in to have a look and explained what I needed, and how he would rectify the issue. I was like whollll, this never happens anymore. I will be going back there if I need some other exhaust work done in the future.

Yea, it's a great feeling when you get treated with a bit of respect eh? And like you say, it doesn't happen often enough.

 

[hademall]

Yes there are stupid mechanics out there..

And not just mechanics. Every trade will have its fair share of Numpties.

 

[MuckUte]

Found the source of a vacuum leak that was causing a high idle on a Getz I got cheap. Seller was told by his mechanic that manifold was cracked and needed to be replaced