what timing chain kit to buy?

[troy sv6]

so i have three vz's that i plan to do up over the next 3 years and i want to do the timing chains on my self primarily because i dont trust mechanics to do a decent job.
i also want to replace the oil pumps while i am in there. but before i get started, i would like to clarify two things.

1, what timing chain kits to buy? there seem to be kits on ebay going for between $160 - $1000. some have roller chains and toothed chains...
which ones are the quality ones that i should use and which ones should i avoid?

2, i have not been able to find any information about oil pump replacement... apparently they need to be installed and torqued correctly or they can fail?
and while doing my oil pump, is it possible to back flush the oil pick up line (from the pump) ? without having to remove the sump?

i have been scouring the net for weeks and the only videos or information are from guys with less than credible work standards.

this is the video i plan to follow when doing my chains,

will all kits be the same for my 3 cars? i have

2007 v6 crewman
2005 sv6
2004 v6 berlina

tia

 

[krusing]

There is a fair few on eBay,
I did my Chains in October last year on my [LY7] Adventra, and the Oil Pump.
Also did all the seals on Timing Case/Cover and the Cam Covers,
It wasn't a hard job, time consuming in pulling it down, cleaning everything for re-assembly,
The hardest part was getting the harmonic balancer/pulley off,
Otherwise its straight forward.
To make the Job even Easier, I purchased the Cam Locking Tools, was worth every cent, save messing with stage 1 and stage 2 timing.

Since you will be doing 3 sets of chains, I can see a set will be beneficial, and save time.
I picked mine up on Market Place, paid a little more than I should have, but they were a quality set,
But I since seen cheaper sets that will suffice to do the job.

The Timing Kit I purchased had 3 missing bolts, so I used the originals bolts I removed,
They were for the 3 Chain Tensioner Arms [aka: Banana Tensioners]

Also, make sure you Torque ALL the bolts correctly, because you would hate one to come loose.

Below link maybe of assistance -
VZ Adventra Lockdown Project | Page 6 | Just Commodores

 

[gungazza]

Mac's kits get that gasket and oil pump

 

[gungazza]

Also transmission lock ing tool in eBay easy then to remove harmonic balancer

 

[troy sv6]

There is a fair few on eBay,
I did my Chains in October last year on my [LY7] Adventra, and the Oil Pump.
Also did all the seals on Timing Case/Cover and the Cam Covers,
It wasn't a hard job, time consuming in pulling it down, cleaning everything for re-assembly,
The hardest part was getting the harmonic balancer/pulley off,
Otherwise its straight forward.
To make the Job even Easier, I purchased the Cam Locking Tools, was worth every cent, save messing with stage 1 and stage 2 timing.

Since you will be doing 3 sets of chains, I can see a set will be beneficial, and save time.
I picked mine up on Market Place, paid a little more than I should have, but they were a quality set,
But I since seen cheaper sets that will suffice to do the job.

The Timing Kit I purchased had 3 missing bolts, so I used the originals bolts I removed,
They were for the 3 Chain Tensioner Arms [aka: Banana Tensioners]

Also, make sure you Torque ALL the bolts correctly, because you would hate one to come loose.

Below link maybe of assistance -
VZ Adventra Lockdown Project | Page 6 | Just Commo

There is a fair few on eBay,
I did my Chains in October last year on my [LY7] Adventra, and the Oil Pump.
Also did all the seals on Timing Case/Cover and the Cam Covers,
It wasn't a hard job, time consuming in pulling it down, cleaning everything for re-assembly,
The hardest part was getting the harmonic balancer/pulley off,
Otherwise its straight forward.
To make the Job even Easier, I purchased the Cam Locking Tools, was worth every cent, save messing with stage 1 and stage 2 timing.

Since you will be doing 3 sets of chains, I can see a set will be beneficial, and save time.
I picked mine up on Market Place, paid a little more than I should have, but they were a quality set,
But I since seen cheaper sets that will suffice to do the job.

The Timing Kit I purchased had 3 missing bolts, so I used the originals bolts I removed,
They were for the 3 Chain Tensioner Arms [aka: Banana Tensioners]

Also, make sure you Torque ALL the bolts correctly, because you would hate one to come loose.

Below link maybe of assistance -
VZ Adventra Lockdown Project | Page 6 | Just Commodores

thanks man, i plan to go through all that tonight after work... i have an impact driver so getting the harmonic ballancer bolt off will be easy, just gotta get a puller.
dores

 

[_R_J_K_]

1, what timing chain kits to buy? there seem to be kits on ebay going for between $160 - $1000. some have roller chains and toothed chains...
which ones are the quality ones that i should use and which ones should i avoid?

2, i have not been able to find any information about oil pump replacement... apparently they need to be installed and torqued correctly or they can fail?
and while doing my oil pump, is it possible to back flush the oil pick up line (from the pump) ? without having to remove the sump?

For such an important component I wouldn't skimp. RevHigh sell the genuine ones at a pretty good price. The roller and tooth chain selection depends on the manufacture date of the car/engine (you plug this in when you buy from RevHigh), it's not necessarily that one of them is better than the other and there's a better version to buy.

Follow the oil pump replacement as in the factory service manual. The oil pump is important, it's something that's in the same league as bearings and proper assembly of the rotating components. It would be expected that it would be torqued down correctly on any engine, otherwise you risk having the pump flex because one portion is tightened down more than the other, you risk leakage or gasket failure, or you risk misalignment of the pump gears which causes wear or cracking of the gears. While accuracy is important, what's probably more important is the consistency between the torqued bolts. Just buy a torque wrench, the cheapies while not really accurate at all will at least do them up to the same consistency.

Cleaning the pickup without removal is a bad idea. Apart from flushing it back into the sump, there's no guarantee you'll get all the debris you dislodge (if there is any) past the mesh on the pickup, which means if there is any it just gets pushed through the pump the first time you turn it on. It's probably unlikely it's that dirty unless you can tell that the engine has had major sludge problems beyond the normal for the Alloytecs. Engine flush would probably achieve what you want to do, or at least dissolve what it dislodges a bit more.

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

Apart from the fact, as mentioned, if you reverse flush it, you will just suck the crud straight up again when you start the motor, there is no way a reverse flush will clean it.

Check out this latest one I cleaned. See it has that bulbous lip around the mesh? It covers 50% of the intake area.

Number one, that will be caked solid with hair and bits of gasket silicone and rubber bands and buttons and stuff. Sludge and the plastic gel remnants of the teeth off your air intake hose for the PCV system. Bits of aluminium casting if this is the first time it ever got cleaned.

You have to pick at it with an a o-ring pick, paper clip, or toothpick - preferably something sickle shaped - to clean out all the embedded gunk.

Then, you have to blast it with water reverse flush, while still picking, to completely get out all the crap.

That lip is so good at catching the crap. You can only get it all out while stirring the crap at the same as the water is flowing. You will see why I say a reverse flush on the motor won't ever clear it.

You won't believe what comes out of your oil galleries when you clean it like that and change the oil pump and you restore proper flow. You wait till you see the oil filter.

I reckon take the camshafts out and carefully clean those galleries there, cause they get this sludge lip. Especially the big caps on the front. They will be so caked all through. Scrub everything everything down with petrol and a good rag, toothbrush and paintbrush that don't lose fibres. The valve springs and valve stem seals. Under the timing cover. Another chap here put me onto the good tip to use thinners to get rid of reluctant buildups revealed by the petty wash. Bit of patience, you can make it pristine.

Then with your clean pickup and new oil pump you will know the difference.

You really want to clean it twice. Clean it, run it for 5000km. Your oil filter will just be so caked solid. Then clean it again and put a new filter and it will stay clean after that.

Except for the **** in your eyes, and the ants where I live, dropping the sump is not hard. The less gasket silicone you put on the better, cause you don't want beads forming inside the motor when you put it on to come loose and block the pickup again. I can say the lightest smear is best, far less than what you reckon you need..

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

And that o-ring must be changed for the pickup too, in the other end. I found it is a really common one. No need to buy GM brand, which is like $20. They are $1 at the rubber bits for trucks shop here.

That Cloyes video is best one, but you need to refer to the manual too.

 

[wannaeatyourbrains]

Oh yeah, if it is automatic, and you don't have a rattle gun, you don't need the locking tool to get the harmonic balancer bolt off and put it on again. Put a bit of pipe on your breaker bar to make it long. Put one end over your passenger side so it will brace against the frame. Other side long enough to cross the face of the harmonic balancer. Then get a pair of rubber handled multi-grips, turn them around, and put the rubber handles in the holes of the harmonic balancer, one on either side of your breaker par pipe combo. That will lock it without damaging anything when you undo it. I put a big ring spanner on the harmonic balancer bolt pointing up about 10 o'clock, put a tall piece of wood vertical on the end of it, then hammer down on the end of the wood with the problem solver. Comes off so easy every car. Tapping is easier than tugging with a big old breaker bar. I put a picture of it somewhere on here once.

 

[troy sv6]

For such an important component I wouldn't skimp. RevHigh sell the genuine ones at a pretty good price. The roller and tooth chain selection depends on the manufacture date of the car/engine (you plug this in when you buy from RevHigh), it's not necessarily that one of them is better than the other and there's a better version to buy.

Follow the oil pump replacement as in the factory service manual. The oil pump is important, it's something that's in the same league as bearings and proper assembly of the rotating components. It would be expected that it would be torqued down correctly on any engine, otherwise you risk having the pump flex because one portion is tightened down more than the other, you risk leakage or gasket failure, or you risk misalignment of the pump gears which causes wear or cracking of the gears. While accuracy is important, what's probably more important is the consistency between the torqued bolts. Just buy a torque wrench, the cheapies while not really accurate at all will at least do them up to the same consistency.

Cleaning the pickup without removal is a bad idea. Apart from flushing it back into the sump, there's no guarantee you'll get all the debris you dislodge (if there is any) past the mesh on the pickup, which means if there is any it just gets pushed through the pump the first time you turn it on. It's probably unlikely it's that dirty unless you can tell that the engine has had major sludge problems beyond the normal for the Alloytecs. Engine flush would probably achieve what you want to do, or at least dissolve what it dislodges a bit more.

yeah i think ill get a package from the revhigh site.
any particular service manual worth getting? once again there are about 10 different options