What's the guy with so many of you lot driving autos?! =P

[jetspin_vn]

Err, no....
In a car with a synchro box (no commodores were ever made without them on all forward gears), you only single clutch & blip the throttle to raise the revs to match the next gear. There is no need to double clutch as the synchros take care of the shaft speed matching.

Blipping the throttle on a downshift only raises the RPM to prevent the compression lurch upon releasing the clutch - that is all that is needed to make for a smooth drive in any manual commodore, and minimise wear.

Whats your point? Thats basically what I was getting at. Drive an old Landrover round for a while, and you too will know proper double clutch downshifting.

Syncros wear out over time - double clutching / heel toe helps reduce the load and give a smoother shift - I know this for a fact after much testing on my VL. The shifts with double clutch are tonnes smoother. Why replace the syncro's when your driving doesn't demand them!!

 

[jetspin_vn]

Not even the V8 supercars double clutch, they simply heel toe to match the RPM & road speed - and they have no synchros, but it's a dog engagement box does work differently.....

Haha too right, I was gonna say on that point they hardly ever use the clutch anyway!!

But im not too well versed on the specialty that is a dog box so I'll take all your words on that matter as gospel.

 

[mixin]

Whats your point? Thats basically what I was getting at. Drive an old Landrover round for a while, and you too will know proper double clutch downshifting.

Syncros wear out over time - double clutching / heel toe helps reduce the load and give a smoother shift - I know this for a fact after much testing on my VL. The shifts with double clutch are tonnes smoother. Why replace the syncro's when your driving doesn't demand them!!

What's my point? My point is that double clutching and heel-toeing are 2 completely different actions, and should not be confused with each other.

I have been driving vintage chevs for 23 years - why would I want to drive a landrover?

23 years is longer than half the members on here have even been alive! (Where's Jaime? ) They have a variety of boxes - the '35 has bevelled gears & synchros on 2nd & top (but straight sided reverse), It requires rev matching on the downshifts, and double clutching only into first if you're going faster than about 5mph.
The '27 on the other hand has straight gears in it, no synchros at all & needs double clutching & careful rev matching.
At least the landrover has bevels on the sides of the gears - just like the '35.

 

[davo]

Do you mean to change gears without using the clutch?! Even if the car's off and you're just palyin' 'round with the gearstick, you should ALWAYS use the clutch. I'll use the clutch ALWAYS 'cause I like money and I don't like costly repairs. Just my thoughts...

Sorry that was lazy on my behalf.

In a car with a synco box i always use the clutch.

On the sports bike however, which has one of these

dog engagement box does work differently

I only use the clutch for starting and stopping.

Even then there is always a shitfight between people who clutch and those who dont.

 

[AirStrike]

I ALWAYS heel-toe on downshifts. Same reasons as stated above - lowers wear on the engine and clutch as well as making the gearchanges MUCH smoother.

Besides, you can't drop it back to 2nd and overtake people the way I do in an auto .

Can you explain how it lowers the wear on the engine??
Also try getting a BT-1, got the 2nd gear notched out on the auto so you can slam it back to second, so I think from 4th to 2nd would be easier in an auto, all you do is pull it straight back you got more movement to do

 

[SpaceYam]

Sorry I didn't actually intend for the word 'engine' to slip in there, it's only really the clutch I'm thinking of.

Just like I accidentally said 'guy' instead of 'go' in the subject line . Stupid brain.

 

[jetspin_vn]

What's my point? My point is that double clutching and heel-toeing are 2 completely different actions, and should not be confused with each other.

Argh! Sorry Mixin, I was readin into it too much. Thanks for clarifying - yes you are right

Been a f****** long week...

 

[Tatiana]

I have an auto as I could not find a manual that had not been thrashed to hell. I would love a manual though, more fun to drive. I do manually shift the gears when driving autos.

 

[SpaceYam]

I'll tell you what though, it makes me so sad looking on Carsguide for commodores and seeing "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" "AUTOMATIC" etc. *sigh*

I'm not gonna get rid of my VN until I can replace with another manual or until it rusts to bits, whichever comes first

 

[Wombat]

As I said, the deal with more gears (eg: five or six or seven speed auto) is that the more gears, the smoother the power delivery, and teh better the economy, as the engine doesn't have to throttle up, then drop back a lot of revs, then have to throttle up again, all the way through the gears.
To no-ones surprise, normal family cars aren't built with outright acceleration and performance in mind...they are built to be economical.
HOWEVER, having said that, there are a remarkable number of true performance cars now which are a much better drive with the auto box than the manual...some quite high-end ones too such as Lamborghini, Maserati, and Ferrari, to name a few.
The next "big step" is going to be CVT auto boxes, where there are no gears, only "Drive", "Reverse", "Nuetral", and "Park".
I know a guy who spent quite a bit of time with a small car in Europe which had one fitted. I think it was a Citroen or something small like that. He said it was weird taking off from the lights...you'd plant the foot and the car would just take off and quickly gather speed, and when you dropped the revs back to hold a steady throttle, the speed just increased smoothly until it matched where you were holding the throttle.
This makes for optimum economy and smooth power delivery, and would be something to see fitted behind an Alloytec or Gen-III.

I heard maybe ten years ago or more that manual gearboxes in cars would go the way of the Dodo early this century, and that on a lot of models they would be either unavailable or an expensive option. I firmly believe it's heading that way now.