Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Whats this sound! after you allow days of rest

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by VFSV6FORME, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    I have struck this before on most of the early Quad cams V6's and other like my old VR commodore that has the Buick 3.8L in it so her goes.

    Now we will talk about the VE V6 with the LEO engine in it and I would like to know why when you don't start the car for 4 to 7 days plus and when you start it you hear a RATTLE coming (Sound like a chain as these Engine have No bleed down lifters like older cars like the VR commodore Buick Engine days) hear a RATTLE coming from the Engine for 1 to 1.5 seconds AS SOON AS THE CAR FIRES UP PRONTO and after this it gone and not doubt when the Oil pressure is up so what is it as again these quad cam engines not have hydraulic lift that they are prone to bleed down so what causes this sound. Now if you start this LEO Engine every day or even two days and I think some three day period it does not have the noise.

    By the way Our VF V6 (SIDI) which has 3200 K's on the clock you can leave it for two weeks then start it and you hear nothing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  2. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    Reading,Reading and more Reading,,,seems that theses Quad Cam 3.6L Engines have Hydraulic lifters....... Another Site quotes "The Hydraulic lifters are known for getting very noisy and creating noises that can lead people to misdiagnose the above mentioned timing chain fault as the cause. Noisy lifters are a common issue with the VE Commodore".

    Interesting!!! , you learn things every day
     
  3. DavesSV6Tonner

    DavesSV6Tonner Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2019
    Location:
    Australia
    Members Ride:
    VZ S V6 Cab & Chassis
    Very interesting indeed. I had no idea the Alloytec V6's valve rocker arms have hydraulic lash adjusters.
    Learn something new every day.:)
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  4. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    My issue is possible not a issue but could be a rocker arms hydraulic lash adjusters as you hear it 000000.1 seconds after the Engine starts and its gone under 2 seconds later.
    The same with the old Vr Comm as yo hear it immediately after the Buick engine starts and it goes after two second or 3 seconds. The funny thing is with the VR the car that I have driven for 24 years when it does this its OIL CHANGE TIME.
     
  5. UTE042_NZ

    UTE042_NZ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    372
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2017
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Members Ride:
    MY17 Magnum Ute
    The youngest VE is 6 years old now, and the oldest is 13. They all have a fair few miles on the clock today. The LE0 variant (variable cam phasing) was only used on the 3.6 litre LY7 wasn't it? So if exactly the same the rattle was present in other engines it would probably not be related to the LE0 differences but to similarities between the engines (such as the four cam) design.

    As you say rattle is often a symptom of wear and may be quietened by oil. If it takes a prolonged period of inactivity to initiate, the rattle is quite possibly due to the time it takes for the oil to drain completely from the worn component(s). I would expect head components to show a noise in much less than 3 days. Could be slightly worn gudgeons and/or big ends with/without a little piston slap, or it might be exactly what your memory tries to tell you it is - and it takes 3 days for the timing chain to completely drain and dry out.

    The ambient temperature should affect the inactivity time too.
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  6. Fu Manchu

    Fu Manchu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    WA
    Members Ride:
    VZ V6
    Cam Phasing was on both motors. On LE0 Cam solenoids operated the inlet cam timing.
    On LY7 it had 4 cam actuators/solenoids/phasers. The operated the inlet and exhaust valve timing.
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  7. Fu Manchu

    Fu Manchu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,613
    Likes Received:
    459
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    WA
    Members Ride:
    VZ V6
    It could be something as simple as exhaust rattle.
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  8. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    Its to precise. Start it everyday or every second day it make no noise. Dont start the car for 4 days or more it make the noise immediately at starting 00000.1 of a second after the engine starts and it goes totally off (full quiet) after 1.5 Seconds after the engine has fire up. For me it has something to do with Oil Pressure. I spend yesterday reading about this and it seems to happen quite often.

    I have seen some Video on youtube where a VE V6 Engine starts, then the Noise start after 2 to 5 seconds after starting (My one is IMMEDIATELY) and rattles on but after 2 to 6 seconds of running it stops. Now my one is not like this.

    Again Me thinks it has something to do with oil Pressure either to do with chain tensioner, or rocker arms hydraulic lash adjusters. Who knows maybe after 3 days the oil bleeds out of the Chain Tensioner or the rocker arms hydraulic lash and when you start the car Oil Press come up and presto the rattle is gone.

    I also read a story on a Ve Sv6 where a guy has a Issue with the same, very similar like mine (leave the car still for a few days then start it and it immediately rattles then stops and this car had around 80,000K on the clock) then he took it to a Holden dealer and supposedly had the 3 chains replaced, dont know if it was a warranty job or not but when the car came back the car was the same so he took it back and they replace the oil switch ( what!!! that wont not cause this issue) and after this he did not reply on the post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  9. greenacc

    greenacc Searching for the billion

    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    VE Berlina
    It's the timing chain noise until the tensioners build oil pressure. It's normal for a few seconds.
     
  10. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    That's what I'm thinking about. If this is the cases the Tensioners must bleed out after resting for a few days
     
  11. VS_Pete

    VS_Pete Donating Member

    Messages:
    4,277
    Likes Received:
    6,739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VE II SV6 MY12 SPORTWAGON
    Turn key to start but turn off before it starts.
    Start car.
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  12. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    Interesting. More info needed for this as it sound simple to do but what does it do?. Is I missing something here?
     
  13. VS_Pete

    VS_Pete Donating Member

    Messages:
    4,277
    Likes Received:
    6,739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VE II SV6 MY12 SPORTWAGON
    I had a VH commodore 202 motor had a sports dash so had oil pressure gauge.

    I would start car tappet noise pressure gauge zero.
    Then after about 3 seconds tappet noise stopped and the gauge went up.

    So I would crank motor but not let it start.
    Then start motor no tappet noise and oil pressure gauge went straight up.
    Always had oil pressure straight away on startup
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  14. greenacc

    greenacc Searching for the billion

    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    VE Berlina
    All that is doing is winding over the oil pump and essentially priming the system. I really wouldn't bother personally, but I drive almost every day so it's not necessary. If you're only starting it once a month sure, that might be a different story.
     
  15. VFSV6FORME

    VFSV6FORME Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Members Ride:
    VF SV6 STORM Series 1
    The VE starts under 1 second so if you even try to trick it it will start anyway. Now by doing this it can introduce spikes in the system and we all dont want to have this.
    Now if the Chain tensioners were electric, well that is different but they are not. When I purchased the car I had alarm come up on the dash and it was a faulty oil Pump sensor so I replaced it but always wonder why manufactures these day don't have a oil gauge in our instrument cluster. The temperature and Oil Pressure and the Water Temperature are needed today. I was told this by a female driver "quote" "to much information, "all we need is a car that runs"
     
  16. VTS5

    VTS5 TechJunkie

    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Location:
    Sth.East\Melb
    Members Ride:
    VE OMEGA
    "too much information"?
    So is bloody social media,but they can't take their eyes off'em....
     
  17. EYY

    EYY Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,789
    Likes Received:
    931
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Location:
    Vic
    Members Ride:
    VS Statesman
    Chain rattle - don’t worry about it until it starts throwing codes
     
  18. Brettly-2008

    Brettly-2008 Active Member

    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Location:
    Bunbury
    Members Ride:
    WM Statesman - VE SS Commodore
    Like a couple of others have said, it's chain slack causing the noise until oil pressure feeds the tensioners adequately. Nothing to do with chains needing to be replaced either.
     
    VFSV6FORME likes this.
  19. snortings

    snortings Active Member

    Messages:
    238
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Location:
    Queensland
    Members Ride:
    MY15 SV6
    Wouldn't happen to sound like this would it? My VF will only do it when it's pointing nose down, but has since been rectified by Holden. It would also have trouble starting which was a faulty fuel purge valve, but in replacing that it also somehow fixed the rattle too as I haven't heard it since.

     
  20. greenacc

    greenacc Searching for the billion

    Messages:
    4,905
    Likes Received:
    670
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    Sydney
    Members Ride:
    VE Berlina
    Which sound are we talking about? The loud crunch at the end doesn't sound good. Like putting a manual into reverse with the clutch half way out...
     

Share This Page