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wheel balancing and road force test

KING46Calais V

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Hi all,

I've had a vibration in my car since i got it.

Initially I put it down to bad balancing and lived with it. I had the last tyre place try 3 times to get the vibration out.

Today I tried another tyre place and they did the regular balancing and a road force balance as well. Road force is where they apply load to the tyre and spin it to determine the best place on the rim for the tyre.

The test found out that two tyres which are on the front surprise, surprise, were out so much that they could not get a proper balance hence the vibration. The tyre guy told me they have had that before and they have had sent tyres back (goodyear/dunlop) because they were so far out.

He suggested i try for a warranty claim either thru brigestone or Holden as the tyres are not up to scratch. First thing I thought was yeah sure, they'll claim I flat spotted them, burnouts under inflated or any other excuse.

The tyre guy told me that is not the case as the casing or walls of the tyre have the fault during manufacture and have either too much or too little rubber thickness which is causing the weight discrepancy.

Anyway, im going to call bridgestone first to see what they deem acceptable in regard to weight difference and go from there.

Has anyone else heard or had experience with this or is the tyre guy just relieving himself in my pocket?

out of interest my tyre results are
LHF 11.5kg
RHF 10.5kg
LHR 6.5kg
RHR 4.0kg

fronts are now on the rear which has taken the vibration out dramatically.
 

kleanphil

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have you considered that the one of the rims are buckled
 

KING46Calais V

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Yes rims checked
All good.
I thought that as well.
 

VS 5.0

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The tyre guy told me that is not the case as the casing or walls of the tyre have the fault during manufacture and have either too much or too little rubber thickness which is causing the weight discrepancy.
Ask old mate to provide you with his expert opinion in writing and take that to Holden to support your warranty claim.
 

KING46Calais V

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Yep I have that as well
He even offered to speak with them direct
Just think if I get Bridgestone on side, Holden might be a bit more accommodating. Or, I might be able to save the grief of dealing with Holden all together
 

KING46Calais V

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I'm sorry, I don't understand what these measurements (weights) are. Can you enlighten me? Thanks.
It's how much each tyre is out.
As tyres are not a uniform thickness in tread and the wall, when they are spinning, the different weight causes them to vibrate. This is why they add weights to compensate

A road force test loads the tyre up with a roller pushing against the tyre similar to what it would experience on the road. It is then able to measure the sidewall flex and rebound. The tyre tech can then move the heaviest part of the tyre to the lightest part of the rim then fine tune with stick on weights. The kg rating for each tyre reflects the difference within each tyre. 4 to 6 kg they can sort out. When it's around 10kg like my rears, it's too much to try and compensate for and they won't be able to get the wobble out. So I will be stuck with a shaky steering wheel when ever they are rotated to the front
 

Skylarking

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Didn’t know that tyre places had such equipment available or maybe I just didn’t notice the rear roller on the otherwise normal looking balance machine. Now I know to have such things checked if I have some vibration, so thanks for the heads up.

In any case it seems like of lack of quality control at the tyre manufacturer that allowed such a suspect tyre out the door but the vehicle manufacturer has the legal liability as they put in on the car when the built it.

As such, I’d go to Holden to get this issue sorted. I’d expect two new tyres, even if only one tyre was buggered, so I get balanced handling across a specific axle. I wouldn’t entertain discounts due to used tread depth resulting in me paying some portion of new tyre costs. Further, I’d expect to be reimbursed for any out of pocket balance or alignment fees I’ve paid trying to fix Holden’s stuff up.

I wouldn’t bother with going to the tyre manufacturer as I didn’t buy tyres from them, Holden can do that to recoupe the cost of tyres and balance/alignment costs they reimbursed to their customer.

As for those weights, mustn’t have slept well as I don’t understand the explanation. I can understand balance weights measured in grams being placed on a rim to sort out the small weight variations of a tyre. But to talk of kilogram weight differences between a good and bad tyre just seems too much as our tyres would each weigh in the 10 odd kilogram range.

What I gather from those numbers is that they are a measure of road force variance that the roller detects when placing 500 odd kilograms of force on the rotating tyre, hence the reading in kilogram. A perfect (unattainable) tyre would have zero kilograms road force difference but anything under 8 pounds (3.6kgs) is within spec according to this video


ps: on the third reading of your post I now understand what you stated so I’ve obviously woken up from my morning slumber :p
 

KING46Calais V

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Didn’t know that tyre places had such equipment available or maybe I just didn’t notice the rear roller on the otherwise normal looking balance machine. Now I know to have such things checked if I have some vibration, so thanks for the heads up.

In any case it seems like of lack of quality control at the tyre manufacturer that allowed such a suspect tyre out the door but the vehicle manufacturer has the legal liability as they put in on the car when the built it.

As such, I’d go to Holden to get this issue sorted. I’d expect two new tyres, even if only one tyre was buggered, so I get balanced handling across a specific axle. I wouldn’t entertain discounts due to used tread depth resulting in me paying some portion of new tyre costs. Further, I’d expect to be reimbursed for any out of pocket balance or alignment fees I’ve paid trying to fix Holden’s stuff up.

I wouldn’t bother with going to the tyre manufacturer as I didn’t buy tyres from them, Holden can do that to recoupe the cost of tyres and balance/alignment costs they reimbursed to their customer.

As for those weights, mustn’t have slept well as I don’t understand the explanation. I can understand balance weights measured in grams being placed on a rim to sort out the small weight variations of a tyre. But to talk of kilogram weight differences between a good and bad tyre just seems too much as our tyres would each weigh in the 10 odd kilogram range.

What I gather from those numbers is that they are a measure of road force variance that the roller detects when placing 500 odd kilograms of force on the rotating tyre, hence the reading in kilogram. A perfect (unattainable) tyre would have zero kilograms road force difference but anything under 8 pounds (3.6kgs) is within spec according to this video


ps: on the third reading of your post I now understand what you stated so I’ve obviously woken up from my morning slumber :p
Yes sky, you got it re tyre weights.

I imagine I will have to go thru Holden, but just want to get some info from Bridgestone first. If I can get them acknowledging that it's an issue, will probably save me a ton of time at the service counter.

While I'd like to get reimbursed for the outlay so far, I don't like my chances. I'd be happy with 2 new tyres at no cost to me. I won't be keen on negotiating a payment or discount re wear/use as I've had a sub standard tyre since the beginning.
See how I go
I'm not looking forward to it.
 

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^ when you talk to Bridgestone, I’d start with asking for the maximum road force variance for your specific tyre and then asking what process should be followed when tyres are outside the spec they gave you.

But whatever you do, don’t start with the premise that having just your tyres replaced is ok. Ask for and push for the lot, then you can decide to compromise if there is strong resistance from Holden(there shouldn’t be).

Sadly dealers are just a necessary evil but they are not the decision makers. In this case as you have reports, etc, you could go directly to HCC and make a claim directly to Holden (costs + tyres).

Treat it as a bit of a game of chess... you like chess don’t you :p

Oh, and if Holden wonder why it took so long, well dealers and tyre places aren’t all at the same skill level and it took as long as it did just to find someone who could help sort out the issue.
 
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