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wheel balancing and road force test

Lex

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Spoke to Bridgestone today

They told me for my model of tyre and size their acceptable limit is 16kg So my tiyres are within spec. They did offer to test my wheels and tyres and ship them from Coffs Harbour To Sydney for free. Turn around though is a couple of weeks.

Bridgestone said there shouldn't be a noticeable vibration at 10. and 11.5 so they think the machine i had my tyres tested on could be out. If it is, and they are over 16kg they will replace the tyres. If they aren't, they will send them back and I wont be given replacements.

I reckon i can see it now, the tyres will be within spec and I will have to live with it. Holden wont want to know either if Bridgestone have fobbed me.

I dont know if i should waste my time as i can pretty much guarantee they will say they are fine

When i spoke to the rep where i had mine tested, he said it was a load of poo, they don't fit anything that is more than 9kg out. But that might just be them or Goodyears policy.

They were quite happy to deal with me and i had no problem bypassing Holden. They told me Holden would only just refer it back to Bridgestone anyway. They said I dont need to go through Holden as they would fix the problem themselves if there was one.

still considering my options for now
Hi
Do you have a spare pair of wheels & tyres? If so, put them on & drop the wheels & tyres that are out of balance of at Bridgestone for testing.
You may get a new pair of tyres. If not, put them back on the car.
Only do this if no cost to you.
 

KING46Calais V

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Hi
Do you have a spare pair of wheels & tyres? If so, put them on & drop the wheels & tyres that are out of balance of at Bridgestone for testing.
You may get a new pair of tyres. If not, put them back on the car.
Only do this if no cost to you.
I've got a spare car so I can just leave the VF on stands.
I suppose I have nothing to lose sending them down if Bridgestone is going to pay for it.
 

Skylarking

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@vc commodore , the process you outlined above is simply not relevant according to ACL. In fact it is illegal for a seller to insist the manufacturer process must be followed as a requirement to obtain a remedy from the seller under ACL. In the same token, it must be illegal for a seller to insist a process involving a 3rd party supplier to the manufacturer be followed to obtain a remedy from the seller under ACL.

So, without a doubt, I'd be going to a Holden dealer, preferably the selling dealer since they have the primary responsibility in law. I'd be taking the dealer service technician for a drive to demonstrate the abnormal vibration. Once the tech has driven the vehicle and experienced the abnormal vibrations himself, he has no grounds to not agreed there is an fault and as such the dealer must provide a remedy under ACL. And now there is no out clause for the dealer, they must resolve the fault, it's as simple as that. It's not a difficult think to do to get to this point.

Since it is a minor fault under ACL, the selling dealer can choose whether to repair, replace or refund the faulty item and if they chose to refund they cant dicount for use. At that point I'd provide them with the road force balance report which indicates that two tires are out and state they can test the issue by temporary installing two new wheels from one of their VF they must have on their lot. This should categorically demonstrate the fault to be with the rims/tires when no vibration is felt during the driving. And since the rims were tested by the tire place it must be the tires themselves that are faulty.

If it becomes an issue and @KING46Calais V is being jerked around by the dealer, I'd be ringing HCC in their presence and reminding them both that the fault has been verified and that Holden has made an undertaking to ACCC to clarify the operation of ACL to HCC staff and the Holden dealers (amongst other things). As such, I'd be firmly stating I want the issue resolved under ACL and I want to be reimbursed for the out of pocket costs which I've incurred.

But if for some perceived benefit people want to deal with a 3rd party, they are free to do so as there are no law against that. However, as the 3rd party supplier is not bound to consider consequential loss, you may have a harder time having such costs reimbursed by them. As such you'd still need to go back to Holden to recover such consequential costs. So the question is why bother going to Bridgestone in the first case, Holden dealers know the law and can't bluff someone's rights under ACL if the call them out on such a bluff.

@vc commodore , as for buying a car with tires having a guaranteed mileage, the seller would be liable for failure to meet such guarantees. What you get back depends on the conditions specified at the time of sale. So if it was sold with no conditions, and my business sold it, YES I’d provide you with new tires. On that front, I think Copper tires are the only ones sold with such mileage guarantees that I’ve heard of. But the tire manufacturer has put conditions on their guarantee. As I understand, a pro rata cost is calculated for used up tread and the purchase must pay this before a replacement is provided. It’s hardly much of an inducement in my view as it’s aim is to capture the buyer via this guarantee.
 

KING46Calais V

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While I appreciate your explanation Skylarking, I don't think Holden will replace anything. Even though there is a vibration, even if Holden and Bridgestone acknowledge it, it will come back to it being acceptable limits by Bridgestone. That is there "out" card.
This vibration is not shaking lose my fillings, I doubt that a passenger could feel it.
Yes they could put on tyres that were less than the 10.5kg mine are out, but I I could end up with ones that are more than I have as well that are still within manufacturers limits and possibly a worse vibration

Australian consumer guarantees have way more fine print associated with them than you find on the fair trading website.

And even though you may think it falls within its guidelines, the matter is adjudicated by someone who is no more than a registrar or representative.

At the end of the day, the tyre does do what it is intended to do. It gives the car something to roll on. Is the car undrivable as a result? No. Does the manufacturer deem the tyre to be faulty? No is it within their acceptable limits? Yes.

I accept that it's an issue to me because I can feel it in the steering wheel at certain speeds. Probably because I'm a fussy bugger and I know my cars well.
Probably half or 3/4 of the people in here could feel it as well and would not be happy.
But the majority of Joe Blo's out there in their Hyundais and micras probably wouldn't even notice.

Just because there is something that you or I are not happy with, because we have a higher standard than those drivers, doesn't not mean those consumer guarantees will get our matter sorted. While you always quote the Accc and the acl, how many times have you actually had a retailer go to tribunal and lose because of your argument. It's not as easy as you think. I know, I've been through it and won but it was no walk in the park and that fault with my faulty item was was way more serious than this on.
 

vc commodore

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@vc commodore , the process you outlined above is simply not relevant according to ACL. In fact it is illegal for a seller to insist the manufacturer process must be followed as a requirement to obtain a remedy from the seller under ACL. In the same token, it must be illegal for a seller to insist a process involving a 3rd party supplier to the manufacturer be followed to obtain a remedy from the seller under ACL.

So, without a doubt, I'd be going to a Holden dealer, preferably the selling dealer since they have the primary responsibility in law. I'd be taking the dealer service technician for a drive to demonstrate the abnormal vibration. Once the tech has driven the vehicle and experienced the abnormal vibrations himself, he has no grounds to not agreed there is an fault and as such the dealer must provide a remedy under ACL. And now there is no out clause for the dealer, they must resolve the fault, it's as simple as that. It's not a difficult think to do to get to this point.

Since it is a minor fault under ACL, the selling dealer can choose whether to repair, replace or refund the faulty item and if they chose to refund they cant dicount for use. At that point I'd provide them with the road force balance report which indicates that two tires are out and state they can test the issue by temporary installing two new wheels from one of their VF they must have on their lot. This should categorically demonstrate the fault to be with the rims/tires when no vibration is felt during the driving. And since the rims were tested by the tire place it must be the tires themselves that are faulty.

If it becomes an issue and @KING46Calais V is being jerked around by the dealer, I'd be ringing HCC in their presence and reminding them both that the fault has been verified and that Holden has made an undertaking to ACCC to clarify the operation of ACL to HCC staff and the Holden dealers (amongst other things). As such, I'd be firmly stating I want the issue resolved under ACL and I want to be reimbursed for the out of pocket costs which I've incurred.

But if for some perceived benefit people want to deal with a 3rd party, they are free to do so as there are no law against that. However, as the 3rd party supplier is not bound to consider consequential loss, you may have a harder time having such costs reimbursed by them. As such you'd still need to go back to Holden to recover such consequential costs. So the question is why bother going to Bridgestone in the first case, Holden dealers know the law and can't bluff someone's rights under ACL if the call them out on such a bluff.

@vc commodore , as for buying a car with tires having a guaranteed mileage, the seller would be liable for failure to meet such guarantees. What you get back depends on the conditions specified at the time of sale. So if it was sold with no conditions, and my business sold it, YES I’d provide you with new tires. On that front, I think Copper tires are the only ones sold with such mileage guarantees that I’ve heard of. But the tire manufacturer has put conditions on their guarantee. As I understand, a pro rata cost is calculated for used up tread and the purchase must pay this before a replacement is provided. It’s hardly much of an inducement in my view as it’s aim is to capture the buyer via this guarantee.

You don't know too much do you......I can tell you, it will be upto Bridgestone to make the call, not Holden. Going through Holden will result in a lot of jerking around, which is stupid, not to mention the possibility of them fobbing off the issue...

And mileage guarantees on tyres...A few brands offer it and it's not upto the place of purchase to honor the warranty....It is upto the manufacturer of the tyre to honor it. The only thing you have posted correctly is how the guarantee works..Of course there is other factors to do with the guarantee, but I won't get into that

You can argue until you are blue in the face over it....Fact is, I deal with this stuff day in day out and know how the systems work and how to get the quickest results over issues like this....I have posted these up and if you want to stuff ass around going through 15 different places, knock yourself out....
 
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vc commodore

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Hey VC
I'm thinking the same as you on this. It will ultimately be up to Bridgestone.

In regard to your previous fitting days, was there any technology like roadforce tests?
Is it common for there to be faults in the manufacture and thickness of tyre wall and carcass that would cause excessive vibration.
I have posted the weight difference of my tyres about, do they seem within limits?


No....I still don't use it.....I use what is known as an on car balancer, when issues like this arise.....Firstly the wheel and tyre assembley is balanced via a wheel balancer, then with the wheel bolted back on, an on car balancer is used to spin it up....With your hand on the bonnet (being a front tyre), you can feel vibrations through the bonnet, if the wheel/tyre assembley is out of balance.....

The on car balancer also shows up the weight and where it is to be positioned, to rectify the imbalance.....If it is excessive (ie about 30G for a passenger tyre) we have a representative of the tyre manufacturer come in and see the test for themselves....In every test, where I have determined an imbalance issue with a tyre and shown the reps, the tyres have been replaced at a discounted price,according to the wear of the tyre.

In my 20+ years, I have seen the quality of the tyres improve greatly, where this problem isn't as common, but very occasionally, it does crop up.....

Even though you had your local Goodyear centre perform this test, the local Bridgestone representative should still come to that business to assess the problem....If your local Goodyear is saying the Bridgestone rep won't come out, they obviously have doubts about their test results.....

Good luck with the issue and hopefully it will be resolved
 

KING46Calais V

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Hi VC
Thanks heaps for the input.
I asked Bridgestone head office about having the manager from the local Bridgestone select. They weren't keen on that and said I need them to send my wheels/tyres sent to the tech place in Sydney. They have offered to pay for freight from coffs to Sydney and back again regardless if there is a problem or not.
Other than a few weeks on jack stands, what do I have to lose. So I'm going to send them down.

While I can just get my head around the whole roadforce test, I'm a bit lost with the issue of weight. I have 2 tyres at 4 and 6 kg and then 2 at 10 and 11kg. Almost double the weight imbalance of the lower ones. Bridgestone then tell me their allowance is 16 kg approx 5 kg more than the ones giving me problems. While I'm no expert, that seems like a massive ballpark.
Any thoughts?
 

vc commodore

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Honestly, I have had nothing to do with road force tests. I can pick if there is too much movement up, down or sideways, as well as picking up if there is an imbalance, whilst a wheel is being spun via an on car balancer or a normal balancer....

Sending the wheels down to Sydney for testing by their techs sounds a little suss, by not having you on the spot. Hopefully they don't try to fob you off, by saying it is quite acceptable.

Good luck and hopefully the issue is solved
 

Skylarking

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You don't know too much do you......I can tell you, it will be upto Bridgestone to make the call, not Holden. Going through Holden will result in a lot of jerking around, which is stupid, not to mention the possibility of them fobbing off the issue...

And mileage guarantees on tyres...A few brands offer it and it's not upto the place of purchase to honor the warranty....It is upto the manufacturer of the tyre to honor it. The only thing you have posted correctly is how the guarantee works..Of course there is other factors to do with the guarantee, but I won't get into that

You can argue until you are blue in the face over it....Fact is, I deal with this stuff day in day out and know how the systems work and how to get the quickest results over issues like this....I have posted these up and if you want to stuff ass around going through 15 different places, knock yourself out....
According to ACL, Holden can't deny a fault exists because some supplier of theirs doesn't want to acknowledge the fault. In law the problem is Holden's to solve and Holden's alone.

As for working in the industry for years, it could be that the processes you have been following are as faulty (in law) as those of Holden, which was the basis of the undertaking Holden made to ACCC (to correct their behaviour and follow the law).

You may agree or disagree but as adults we can have differing veiws so you need to be an insulting little (i'll let others insert their prefered expletives).
 

vc commodore

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According to ACL, Holden can't deny a fault exists because some supplier of theirs doesn't want to acknowledge the fault. In law the problem is Holden's to solve and Holden's alone.

As for working in the industry for years, it could be that the processes you have been following are as faulty (in law) as those of Holden, which was the basis of the undertaking Holden made to ACCC (to correct their behaviour and follow the law).

You may agree or disagree but as adults we can have differing veiws so you need to be an insulting little (i'll let others insert their prefered expletives).

So in other words, if I buy a car from sky's shoddy shack and the tyres have an issue like this, it's upto Sky's shoddy shack to replace them.

Keep blowing hot air out....The issue is a minor tyre issue, not a major issue, where someones life is in jeopardy..What I have outlined is the course of action, which seems to be the action the OP is taking
 
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