Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

Which injector prematurely failed on your V8 VF ?

Which injector prematurely failed on your V8 VF ?


  • Total voters
    25

Skylarking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
9,993
Reaction score
10,322
Points
113
Age
123
Location
Downunder
Members Ride
Commodore Motorsport Edition
@Leon771, with a loss of one injector, power will be down 1/8 since only 1/8 of the motor is working :rolleyes: So that would mean 266kw instead of 305kw (for a standard engine). 266kw is more than ample on a public road so that you won’t need to push the accelerator appreciably more than is normally the case. As such fuel use shouldn’t change much. But the engine will be a little rough. The more failed injectors you have, the rougher it will be and the more power you’ll loose.

If it was me, I’d measure the injector resistance as it’s is an easy way to determine if an injector is foobared. Surprised RACV didn’t do this simple diagnostic check, guess computers know better.

I think the standard injector resistance is 14 Ohms. Anything outside standard resistance or a large difference between all injectors indicates a problem. If it’s a failed injector, as you have an injector DTC then the Holden selling dealer should be footing the repair bill in replacing all 8 injectors under your factory warranty or ACL statutory warranty if you are out of factory warranty.

If you bought the car privately, no ACL warranty applies and if the factory warranty has expired then you’re out of luck and on your own.

No idea whether a failed injector would be the cause a P0102 MAF circuit A fault… I don’t think so… Maybe the connector is a little loose due to the engine vibrations so unplug and replay the MAF connector and check the sensor voltage and ground are ok…

 

Leon771

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
47
Reaction score
27
Points
18
Age
42
Location
Emerald
Members Ride
MY17 VFII SS-V Redline Sportwagon
Car felt like it had 80kW or less. Struggled up even slight inclines and with any sort of load, car was shaking quite violently.
Could only manage 80km/h on a flat freeway and with me holding 5th in sport mode. If it was in 6th it couldn’t handle the load on it.

Is the Walkinshaw kit a MAF less tune? I don’t know.

I don’t have the skills or equipment to check resistance on injectors. Will have to get it towed to a workshop on Monday for them to hopefully diagnose.
From what I could see under the bonnet, nothing seemed loose.

Car is out of standard 3 year warranty and I can’t be bothered fighting Holden/GM for a free replacement. If it is diagnosed as injectors I’ll just get all 8 replaced.

On idle I usually use 3.8-4.0 L/h. Yesterday she was sitting at 5.2L/h in drive.
I averaged 13.5 L/100km for journey home when it is usually 10.5L/100km.
Didn’t notice any unburnt fuel smell and exhaust doesn’t look to have a lot carbon on it either so not sure where all the fuel went.
 

dassaur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
1,268
Reaction score
1,144
Points
113
Location
Sydney
Members Ride
VF Calais V V8 Wagon
Car felt like it had 80kW or less. Struggled up even slight inclines and with any sort of load, car was shaking quite violently.
Could only manage 80km/h on a flat freeway and with me holding 5th in sport mode. If it was in 6th it couldn’t handle the load on it.

Is the Walkinshaw kit a MAF less tune? I don’t know.

I don’t have the skills or equipment to check resistance on injectors. Will have to get it towed to a workshop on Monday for them to hopefully diagnose.
From what I could see under the bonnet, nothing seemed loose.

Car is out of standard 3 year warranty and I can’t be bothered fighting Holden/GM for a free replacement. If it is diagnosed as injectors I’ll just get all 8 replaced.

On idle I usually use 3.8-4.0 L/h. Yesterday she was sitting at 5.2L/h in drive.
I averaged 13.5 L/100km for journey home when it is usually 10.5L/100km.
Didn’t notice any unburnt fuel smell and exhaust doesn’t look to have a lot carbon on it either so not sure where all the fuel went.
If your maf is playing up it will use more fuel.
If they did a mafless tune presumably they removed any maf-related errors and even the maf itself, therefore it's unlikely a maffless tune. Definitely check if the wiring is plugged in properly.
A bad maf can cause all the symptoms you are describing too.

But since yo ualso have injector 8 issue I would be checking resistance first.
 

Daniel Souza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
531
Reaction score
646
Points
93
Age
46
Location
Glenwood
Members Ride
VF2 Wagon SSV Redline
I had many injectors failing in different ocassions but never had a maf code.

The stock ls3 sits at around 2.6 l/h
3 l/h with AC on

When the engine goes to limp mode it makes the AFR very rich
 

Skylarking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
9,993
Reaction score
10,322
Points
113
Age
123
Location
Downunder
Members Ride
Commodore Motorsport Edition
Car is out of standard 3 year warranty and I can’t be bothered fighting Holden/GM for a free replacement. If it is diagnosed as injectors I’ll just get all 8 replaced.
In the first instance it’s not a ”fight” but just a polite acknowledgement to the selling dealer that you are aware it’s a known defect in a life of vehicle component and that you’re aware many dealers have replaced all 8 injectors in such cases as a gesture of good and in compliance with ACL.

If the dealer is 1/2 decent then they’ll call GMSV, GM/Holden (or whatever they want to call themselves) and put it to them that it’s a known defect and they should foot the bill rather than the selling dealer footing the bill… Whatever comes of it, either they will fix it at their cost or it will end up as your cost but that should be known within an hour… while you’re at work earning the $1k it may end up costing you.

So hardly a “fight” in the first instance up to that point. And if they say fook off and you don’t want to take it further, then that’s ok. But go in and say “I’m sick of this **** and just want it fixed whatever the cost”, they’ll gladly take your money and some…

So your car, your money, your choice :cool:
 

VIRGOMONKEY

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
MANDURAH, WEST AUSTRALIA
Members Ride
98 VT ACCLAIM V6 WAGON. 2017 VF 2 REDLINE WAGON.
#7 just failed at 82000. First failure. Will attempt thru local ex holden dealership and see how i go to get all 8 done under a known defect claim. Sep2017 build and all extended warranty depleted. Am i now on my own?
 

Skylarking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
9,993
Reaction score
10,322
Points
113
Age
123
Location
Downunder
Members Ride
Commodore Motorsport Edition
#7 just failed at 82000. First failure. Will attempt thru local ex holden dealership and see how i go to get all 8 done under a known defect claim. Sep2017 build and all extended warranty depleted. Am i now on my own?
Read up on ACL statutory warranty as it's duration is purposefully not defined within law as "x" years. The duration actually depends on how long a reasonable consumer would expect a product to last without fault given what that product is and the price paid for it. As such a seller can't simply claim your statutory warranty has expired without any justification.

And for a seller to be say your statutory warranty has expired isn't easy given that it's been a known latent defect since before the last VF commodores were sold. Such known latent defect should have resulted in a safety recall considering missfires can cause engine stall which is itself an achnowledged safety related concern.

In relation to the injectors themselves, many a reasonable consumer would expect them to be a life of vehcile component and as such should last well past the factory warranty and in fact should last for decades and decades. That in itself defines that in this case, the statutory warranty for these injector failures can be decades and decades long ;) Combine this with the fact Holden sold the commodore with a 7 year factory warranty and that this failure is a known defect, the seller shouldn't be playing such expired warranty games. As is, the seller can make an ACL claim to the manufacturer and be reimbursed the cost of the 8 injectors and their labour to replace them so given many dealers have been screwed by GM, you'd think more would take such a stance ;)

But Holden (the manufactrurer) doesn't make it easy and selling dealers seem to not want to fight Holden on behalf of the owners. So the best recourse from the selling dealers perspective is to say it's not covered... Sadly Holden has been playing hardball with such issue and with the fact people generally don't go to small claims to asert their rights in law.

If such hardball games occur, you can always pay to have all 8 injectors replaced and then make a small claims case at a tribunal against the selling dealer. But to be successful you'd need good supporting evidence (if you can get your hands on the early injector TSB's, notices, etc, which outlined the fact they were faulty and the corrective actions required, like replace all 8 , that would help you). Calling your state consumer group and getting a rundown on the process is also helpful.

Hopefully you bought the car new and selling dealer is still in business so you can go back to them and argue these injectors are a known defect and should be replaced under your ACL stat warranty; and they are smart enough to know a small claims process will cost them more trouble and that they'd likely loose. No need to even get Holden (the manufacturer) involved.

Some can't be bothered going down that small claims road which I understand but it can undo the "what an average consumer expects of the product" angle if everyone can;t be faffed...

Whatever you choose to do, good luck with it.
 

VIRGOMONKEY

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
MANDURAH, WEST AUSTRALIA
Members Ride
98 VT ACCLAIM V6 WAGON. 2017 VF 2 REDLINE WAGON.
Read up on ACL statutory warranty as it's duration is purposefully not defined within law as "x" years. The duration actually depends on how long a reasonable consumer would expect a product to last without fault given what that product is and the price paid for it. As such a seller can't simply claim your statutory warranty has expired without any justification.

And for a seller to be say your statutory warranty has expired isn't easy given that it's been a known latent defect since before the last VF commodores were sold. Such known latent defect should have resulted in a safety recall considering missfires can cause engine stall which is itself an achnowledged safety related concern.

In relation to the injectors themselves, many a reasonable consumer would expect them to be a life of vehcile component and as such should last well past the factory warranty and in fact should last for decades and decades. That in itself defines that in this case, the statutory warranty for these injector failures can be decades and decades long ;) Combine this with the fact Holden sold the commodore with a 7 year factory warranty and that this failure is a known defect, the seller shouldn't be playing such expired warranty games. As is, the seller can make an ACL claim to the manufacturer and be reimbursed the cost of the 8 injectors and their labour to replace them so given many dealers have been screwed by GM, you'd think more would take such a stance ;)

But Holden (the manufactrurer) doesn't make it easy and selling dealers seem to not want to fight Holden on behalf of the owners. So the best recourse from the selling dealers perspective is to say it's not covered... Sadly Holden has been playing hardball with such issue and with the fact people generally don't go to small claims to asert their rights in law.

If such hardball games occur, you can always pay to have all 8 injectors replaced and then make a small claims case at a tribunal against the selling dealer. But to be successful you'd need good supporting evidence (if you can get your hands on the early injector TSB's, notices, etc, which outlined the fact they were faulty and the corrective actions required, like replace all 8 , that would help you). Calling your state consumer group and getting a rundown on the process is also helpful.

Hopefully you bought the car new and selling dealer is still in business so you can go back to them and argue these injectors are a known defect and should be replaced under your ACL stat warranty; and they are smart enough to know a small claims process will cost them more trouble and that they'd likely loose. No need to even get Holden (the manufacturer) involved.

Some can't be bothered going down that small claims road which I understand but it can undo the "what an average consumer expects of the product" angle if everyone can;t be faffed...

Whatever you choose to do, good luck with it.
thanks for that rundown, i get the feeling they rely on you walking away because you dont have time for it not running. Can you confirm the bosch official part # ? Is it the following

381cc/min EV14 Injector​

0 280 158 051
 

Daniel Souza

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
531
Reaction score
646
Points
93
Age
46
Location
Glenwood
Members Ride
VF2 Wagon SSV Redline
thanks for that rundown, i get the feeling they rely on you walking away because you dont have time for it not running. Can you confirm the bosch official part # ? Is it the following

381cc/min EV14 Injector​

0 280 158 051
Did you measured the injector resistance ?
 
Top