Hardly a joke, why should tax payers be forced to pay for the slobs who eat themselves into disease and illness? Give me one good reason why this should be allowed to happen? They are there to help people who need help, junkies need help with a bullet, we should not have to waste resources helping these people who refuse to help themselves. As for thinking before I type, just because I do not carry the same tree hugging hippy mentality of lets help everyone, does not mean I have not thought about what I have said. I'd much rather know a paramedic is available to help someone who has suffered a stroke or something instead of out helping some deadbeat scumbag who has overdosed again.
There are some really good relevant comments here but there are quite a few piles of crap too...... What sane person could think that a paramedic would leave a person to die ????? You must be joking when you suggest it would be fair to ask a paramedic to make a judgment call that would result in a persons death!!! Judge, Jury and Executioner eh.... Might work if we bring the death sentence back in....could apply it in the case of immature wankers street racing and killing innocent motorists and pedestrians.....just let them sit in the wrecks of theirs and their victims cars till they die.....toss a match in maybe...:rip:. The logical result of this sort of behavior is that Ambo's will have to have security with them for all calls to the danger areas.....not really a big deal or hard to implement but the cost of service to those areas will obviously go up....a bit of a bugger for the 99% of well behaved people in the communities affected but such is life. Get real those sanctimonious writers amongst you, whose poo probably doesn't stink, and try to come up with solutions not your pious preaching!
1. Not all obese people are obese because they're "slobs" as you so eloquently put it. 2. Eating disorders are real psycholoigcal disorders. Just like those who are anoexic/belimic, theres also the other end of the spectrum. 3. Weight gain can be a result of depression or prolonged grief. But your right. Just tell them to harden the f up right... thatll make everything better.... :bang: 4. Its not as if every overweight person gives up on themselves... many try VERY hard to lose weight, and many simply cant for a number of reasons. Attitudes like yours doesnt help anybody. 5. Isn;t Australia now the most obese country in the world? Ok... theres clearly a problem there... but lets not help it. Lets ignore it! right? 6. Not suprising how many fast food outlets there are on every single street paired with all the advertisments for fast food all day long. Remember those banana ads? (ba na na na naaaaaa na na na naaa make those bodies sing) instead its 'mcdonalds, now baking your favorite treats fresh daily!' You know... People can change... Drug addicts can become clean, Obese people can lose weight... they need help though... not to be shuned or humiliated or discriminated against lets just agree to disagree minux.... at least I can rest easy knowing that you're not in a position of power where you could change any of the laws relevant to any of these topics as well as others And just out of curiosity... if you had your way... who would paramedics treat? No drug addicts No one under the influence of alcohol No one speeding/running a red light No one not wearing a seat belt Not little timmy who was riding his bike without a helmet Not the guy who fell off his roof because he didnt have the proper saftey equipment No one with food allergies who eats a food their allergic too because they should have known better Is there anything left? by the way... i love how people say "why should tax payers pay for.." to make it sound so bad... hey... if everyone in this country was a perfect weight... we'd still all have to pay tax
Your right, as I said earlier, the majority of obese people are obese due to their own doing. It seems every obesity thread we get the same people saying this, in Australia morbidly obese people with medical conditions are a minority. Only have to look at the last health study to see that. While they might be psychological, it is their own actions that generally cause this, perhaps this is where friends of these people should step up and force them into some sort of counselling? If they refuse this, why should we help if they refuse to help themselves? Your right, weight gain can be a result of this, I went through it myself, has taken the past 12 months to get myself to drop off the 40+kg that I have dropped. Funny thing is, I did harden the **** up and realised IT IS MY FAULT I WAS THAT WAY. Fairly sure the majority of tubbies in Australia could do well with the same attitude. The rare amount of medically obese in Australia who fall into the can't category could be exempt, however, many give up simply because IT IS TOO HARD, we are a society of if its too hard, forget it, you see it everyday from all walks of life. My attitude is probably one of the better out there, Darren who owns JC would back me up in saying I am very positive towards those who want to help themselves, I wont go into personal details here. There is a problem, it is called LAZINESS. People are too lazy to exercise, people are too lazy to get up from the couch, people are too lazy to cook their own fresh healthy meals, people are too lazy to help themselves. Ahh here we go again more excuses, where is the willpower? Thats too hard, lets just eat **** food because its there. Fast food chains can not be blamed for obesity, again, laziness and excuses can be. People can change, but until they want to help themselves, nothing will ever change them, sometimes humility and discrimination can work wonders. Thats a bummer...although in the coming years with where I plan to go with my life, that certainly could change! I have no problems with paramedics treating anyone, however, these people should have to pay full costs for the services without it affecting anyone elses life who happens to 1. abide by the law and not use illicit drugs, 2. Look after themselves, 3. Not be out smashed on alcohol every weekend and 4. Actually provide something to society instead of being drains. I do not get why its so hard to see my point of view, why should people who delibrately put themselves into harms way get benefits from taxpayers for this? We would have to pay tax, but it could go into much more worthwhile areas such as Education, better hospitals, better conditions for police, ambo's fireys, teachers, heck it could even go into much better education on why drugs are bad, why alcohol is bad etc instead of pumping money into people that do nothing for society except drain it.
It's possible you guys are confusing what is ideal, with what is practical. Ideally, I mostly agree with Minux - why should we have to pay for some dropkick who bought some back meth, or some drunk wanker who punch a window a sliced up his arm? We shouldn't. Those kinds of incidents are idiotic, self-inflicted, completely avoidable acts of stupidity, and people should wear the consequences in my opinion, by paying for any care they receive. The practical problem in reality is identifying which category people fall into - obesity would be a prime example, where many get morbidly obese due completely to crap food and a sedentary lifestyle, others have more legitimate causes. How to you prove reliably which is which? For me the issue isn't the justice, it's the chance the justice will not be applied accurately.
They are there to help people who need help, junkies need help with a bullet, we should not have to waste resources helping these people who refuse to help themselves. As for thinking before I type, just because I do not carry the same tree hugging hippy mentality of lets help everyone, does not mean I have not thought about what I have said. I'd much rather know a paramedic is available to help someone who has suffered a stroke or something instead of out helping some deadbeat scumbag who has overdosed again.[/QUOTE] not everyone who takes drugs is a junkie. tree hugging hippy mentality, hardly i call it reality. suffered a stroke? stroke brought on by that last line of coke...? i can fully understand where your coming from but in the real world its not that clean cut. things people do, choices they make can sometimes turn into bad **** happening. which is then later resoloved in a court of law to determine who was at fault not on the street, bar, pub, office or bank by a paramedic. you cant argue at all that a paramedic has to choose which people to treat then and there! because of what they think might have happened to them and if that happening icluded the use or misuse of an illegal substance is not thier call because they wont know straight away! hell im with you 100% id rather see some poor person who has fallen from a building site being helped rather then some herion addict who has just shoot a load of smack up his arm, but its never going to happen because of the following LOGICAL arguments iv just made.
Paramedics should have the power, if they see it unsafe, to refuse help to someone who is threatening/violent/attacking. They should be able to say, Nah sorry mate you obviously dont want/need our help, catch ya later. Provide it to those who need it. Big ups to our medics though
(before anything else, im NOT a paramedic, but my grandfather has taught advanced first aid and all the like for many, many years and this is what i've been taught, please correct my typing faults if any) The first things you get taught in even a basic first aid course is: 1) will helping the person (regardless of what the issue is) cause harm to me? (wether it be the car might catch fire, the person might lash out etc.) 2) its also suggested that you say something along the lines of "hey mate, my name is 'name' and im here to help you out, would you like me to take a look at your 'body part'?" you have no reason to help anyone who says no f##k off dont help me. 3) if the person is unconscious it comes down to you and in an ambulance officers position their duty of care, they signed up to help people, and i know paramedics that HATE getting that callout to the nightclub from an OD, wether it be their fault or wether it be someone slipped something into someones drink. Once they get there they dont have time to ask questions, they just do what they're there for and save that guy or girls life. Its not always foolproof and people die, and there is probably times where people having a heart attack lying in bed in the middle of the night dont get the help they need but thats life, there aren't enough ambo's, and irrespective of whats done there probably never will be. IMHO, no matter how healthy or unhealthy i or anyone i know may be, when my number comes up, i will die, and noone will be able to stop that, its god's will, im not an incredibly religious man, but i do believe there is a god who decides when our expiry date really is. i dont mean this in a way of go do whatever you want whenever you want, obviously. "we're born, we live, we die"
I have seen a few times while driving my car paramedics trying to resuscitate a druggy who has overdosed on heroin on the street.I say what a waste of resources trying to bring back these dead beats when someone else could be be needing their help.Leave them where they lie one less to worry about.
This is exactly right, what is the medic supposed to do, decide if you should live or die? They will never have the full story as to why a person needs their help when they get to a scene. They are there to stabilise the patient before taking them to hospital if required. So Minux, your a paramedic, how do you choose who lives or dies and what evidence do you use to decide this? and what happens when you find out that the person you let die because you think it was drugs actually died from something else?
If it is an OD i'd keep eating my salad and not even bother going out. Fight due to being drunk? keep drinking my milk. Paramedics are generally made aware of a situation before they get there. What happens if someone died and it wasnt from an OD? Meh, i'd go back to work the next day like nothing happened, **** happens. When you have been where I have been and seen what I have seen, you realise death is meaningless. People get caught up with it far too much. Life is not precious, it is just short. If people want to put themselves into positions where it shortens an already short existence, they do not deserve help.
Your capacity for compassion makes you a great human being minux. Needless to say if you were the paramedic who turned up to a family member and decided not to help them I would not be saying **** happens.
Heres a bit of a twist of the topic.... I'm a paramedic here in melb (currently on holidays ) but here's the story.... We got dispatched to a psych patient who was quote (acting strange). Get there & the patient was on ice. Heaps of evidence of drug use in the home. Got the cops involved for our own safety (common sense) & transported patient to hospital with police escort on board. during my whole time assessing & treating etc (maybe a whole 90mins worth), he was abusive, threatening to shoot me, treatening to kill me, to kill my wife & kids (im not married but alright that's a pretty decent threat) & openly pointed out & was shouting out racial taunts to me (yes im not full blown aussie looking). there was more abuse & taunting by him directed at me the whole time but im not going to type this here. anyway since the police helped me transport this patient, were at the hospital while this patient was in a psych room; still pacing the room & verbally threatening to kill me. The police officer i was talking to was by chance standing next to me infront of the doorway of the psych room that the patient was in & as quick as a flash, the psych patient who was earlier threatening to shoot me, grabbed the officers gun & tried to pull it out of her holster at the same time screaming in my face that hers going to ****ing blow my brains out... as soon as i saw his hand touch the officers gun, i drooped what ever was in my hands & punched him in the jaw breaking it in several places. once he fell to the ground almost all of the emergence staff at the hospital jumped on him & eventually he was subdued. That punch was in pure self defence & funilly enough, the ambulance service backed me up & dismissed the case as 'an act of self defence'. but yeah, ambos being bashed is not right. but at the same time clear & sound judgement by the crew should be adhered to at all times.
Is death still meaningless if it is your family/friends? Just for an example, what would you do if you found out the ambos kept eating their sandwich or drinking their milk if your best mate was in a car wreck coz he was street dragging and they said 'ah well, he was being stupid, he deserves it'. Just out of interest what have you seen and where have you been? I'm not having a go, I just want to know what gives you that way of thinking?
I am full blown aussie looking and I don't care if your asian, middle eastern, pommie or a yank, I would more than gladly accept help from a paramedic of any descent. The other side of the coin is that anyone who abuses, threatens or attacks a paramedic (or anyone in the medical profession) should be taken to a room without cameras and be given a good going over. I have no time for people who are there simply trying to help someone out being a victim.
When family/friends die, sure, I am sad, but I get over it rather quick, their time was up, no point dwelling on it. I have lost many close friends to suicide and stupid accidents(6 in total now), I have the same belief each and every time. What need is there to seriously mourn for so long? generally they had a good life before they went, no point remembering the death. As for ambo's continuing to eat their sandwich, good on them, if some idiot friend of mine was stupid enough to be doing drag racing on a public road, they deserve to die and do not deserve the help of paramedics. Somebody said I am not compassionate, what a load of ****, I simply do not have time for those who break laws only to expect help later on, its a ****ing joke. Where I've been? Search through some posts, it will make a clear story. I do not need to keep bringing it up. Sorry.
If the decision were up to me, I'd help everyone, but the self-inflicted stupidity cases pay the full cost of the care they recieve - Medicare does not. Then run it like a demerit point system, you clock up more than 3 [stupid] incidents in a 5 year period (or something like that), you get nothing. Good on ya. Seriously! :thumbsup:
I don't want you life story, I'm only after an example or two of what makes you think you have seen so much more than everyone else, I don't really want to read 6000 posts looking for it.
