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Will Kia Stinger really flog an SS?

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by monstar, Apr 3, 2017.

Would you be happier in a KIA?

  1. 바하, 너 잃어 (yes)

  2. KIA can KMA (no)

  3. Maybe (needs a Chev badge)

  4. But it's not a V8? (reality check)

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  1. Skylarking

    Skylarking Active Member

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    Hm, i'm not sure but wasn't some form of homologation required back in the day which resulted in the manufacturers having to sell a certian number of cars containing the components they wanted in their race cars? And isn't it, in part, this very fact that makes owning one of these rather limited and expensive (at the time of release) vehicles the reason they were desirable? Today, I guess, the other aspect of desirability is the nostalgia in re-living one's youth :rolleyes:

    In this respect, the VF's are not even in the same game as they are nothing like what Holden races (as much as Holden try and associate their race cars with their road cars they sell) and these machines aren't old enough for anyome to be thinking of re-living one's youth to be a consideration :eek:

    Whether the VF's will be as desirable in 50 years needs a better crystal ball than i have but race on sunday, sell on monday is so mid 19th century :p

    The PH3, A9X and other such vehicles were game changers in their time because they lifted the base level for the rest of the pack. A VF, no matter how good it is can never be a game changer in the same sense as Holden simple isn't making vehicles any longer and the pack can't be lifted in the same way of old.

    In any case, today's game changers will be the likes of the Tesla's and such vehicles when we look back at days gone by... The disosuar has had it's day....

    And don't forget i bought a motorsport because of it's great mechanical package, extra engine/gearbox cooling, brakes, magnetic ride suspension and full 7 year warranty but i was never under the illusion the vehicle was a game changer, it was just the best of the last....

    It's a fantastic beast of a car when pushed but we can't do that on the roads often and expect to keep our licenses, so on the civil putt putt drives, i have been a little disapointed at Holden for some of it's silly penny pinching (no chromatic rear view missor, lack of seat cooling, no HID headlights, etc) but the Yanks seemed to get such niceties for less (so i do feel we got slugged for a slightly inferiour product).

    At the end of the day, i actually bought the MSE over the Stinger and couldn't car less which car flogs the other as i'm driving to the shops to pick up some bread or milk... Only time will tell which vehicle is the better choice but overall i'm happy with the MSE :)
     
  2. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Phase 3, come out and play! Mate a stock 6cyl SV6 would probably wipe the floor with it around a track. Even by 1970's standards they were slow in a straight and handled like crap. By today's standards, they don't rate a mention.
    The most overrated muscle car made. In my opinion.
     
  3. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Like thousands befo 're you who sold their muscle cars (me included) who look back and say, "I wish I'd never sold it".
    But that's kind of off track anyway. Pun intended.
    It's a game changer because as an Aussie made car, it compares very favourably with the best in the world units category. None have before, and none will again.
     
  4. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    ^ Also, the 275kW number isn’t from any published figure nor is it from the road cars they sold; that was from a comment from one of the drivers (or engineers? or Ford PR monkeys?) of the Bathurst-winning Phase III race cars when a journo asked about power & his answer was what he thought based on his experience ... ie. “about” 380hp.
     
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  5. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    The official figure was 300hp (224kw) if I recall correctly. The e49 certainly showed it a clean set of heals over the quarter.
     
  6. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t the Chargers only do a faster quarter (and I wouldn’t have said any heel-viewing could be done - only something like 0.1s to 0.2s in it) due to gearing?
    Same reason an A9X (with stock diff ratio) does about a 25s quarter?
     
  7. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    As I said, over the quarter. Actually well beyond. The e49 was a quicker accelerating car than the Ph3. The stock e49 diff ratio was 3.23:1. Definately heels in full view. The HO HO HO was just too slow. Although the e49 was slower up top and a Ph3 would overtake one in top gear. A higher redline and a few extra ponies over the e49's 302hp.
     
  8. monty_vfssv

    monty_vfssv Active Member

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    You'd wanna hope an sv6 with over 40 years of engine and chassis development would destroy a 70s muscle car around a track, but even then you said "probably" so maybe your not so sure?

    Didn't the phase 3 have the "fastest 4 door" title in its day??

    The vf is just an above average 4 door sedan that gets flogged by honda civics and vw golfs.. but it sounds cool! And can fit more humans inside! And tow a caravan!! (every hurt fan boys argument) but thats just my opinion.
     
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  9. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless you own a One:1 (or something similar) chances are there are cars out there that are faster than you. Whether or not they are good bang for buck is another question.

    TBH, I can't really stand the ass end of the VF, it's to Euro. I prefer something that looks a bit more muscular like the VE did. VF wagons are better looking IMHO.
     
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  10. ausmac91

    ausmac91 New Member

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    Funny how what people like differs, i'm totally the reverse and love the VF2 rear, best ass VE+ has had, its the front that went backward (and I have a VF2). Same thought though on muscular, just applying to the front. VE had the simplest 'tough' front end, it's like after that they thought 'what can i mess with on this near smack on design to make it look different'.
     
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  11. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    No worries. I'm not sure. How could I be? I doubt they've ever been paired up. But, I'd put money on it.

    Yeah, that was the claim in 1971 I think. Probably accurate too. But then the E49 was the worlds fastest accelerating 6cyl for many years too, and quicker than the HO. American Muscle cars were much quicker and faster. But they generally had 2 doors. They're both cool cars for sure. I love all 60's and 70's muscle cars. For what they are. But, obviously, they don't hold a candle to modern cars.

    Not sure what Civics and Golf's have got to do with VF's? That's about as relevant as saying the Civic or Golf is an average hatch that gets flogged by a 250cc 2 stroke scooter. I agree the VF is an above average 4dr sedan. One that can wear many hats, and that's the allure for me. Not about hurt fanboi's, just reality. I can't tow my boat, 3-4 mates and gear in comfort with a Civic, Golf or Stinger. My Redline does it with ease. With the Holden specific MRC, the LE's just take it to another level and if more power is what you're chasing, it's as easy as 1,2,3. Such a versatile machine. Not the best at anything, but very good at just about everything, and that makes it about the best of what it is.
     
  12. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    My old man used to get around on a Suzuki GS1000S, an '83 model.
    He stacked it 6 weeks ago, the bike slid into a gutter and cracked the lower crankcase.
    I've lent him my stock Redline ute, and he loves it.
    He says it goes almost as hard as the bike...
     
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  13. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    I hope he's ok?
     
  14. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    He only lost a bit of skin, pretty lucky considering he is 83.
     
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  15. immortality

    immortality Moderator Staff Member

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    Damn lucky at that age.
     
  16. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    I'll say. If the bike hit the kerb hard enough to smash the crankcase, it could have done awful things to an 83 year old body. Pretty ballsy to be riding a GS1000 too! It sounds like he's giving the Redline a workout. Once a revhead always a revhead. Lol
     
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  17. PeteSS

    PeteSS Active Member

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    Ford quoted 224kw for the PH3, which was the same as the GT. I read in some very old car mags that it was closer to 260-270kw, though Ford didn't want to advertise the fact, hence why HO (in Fords eyes) stood for Handling Option instead of High Output. The Charger was quicker over the 1/4 mile by a bee's dick, though i think from 160kph onwards the PH3 had the legs.

    As for VF future values appreciating, I don't see it, especially short term. The fact that there are still new MSE's and HSV's still sitting in car yards nearly 12 months after they were built speaks volumes. Though i suppose the same thing happened with the LE Monaro's and Ford XC Cobra's, they couldn't give them away. Look what they are worth now. And they were just glorified parts bin specials
     
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  18. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Yes, as I alluded to Pete, the big 351 4V had the longer legs, over the similar weight 6cyl Chugger. As you would expect. I've read before the HO was more like 380hp too. With what it had done to it over the GT and being pre-pollution etc, I wouldn't doubt it being about right. The 308 L34 Torana's were 340hp after all. Once again though, you can't compare those figures to current figures.

    Re VF future values, I agree in part, other than the W1, few cars have ever appreciated in the short-term to my knowledge. I wouldn't buy any car as an investment. Certainly not my MSE. It's there to be driven, when I feel like it. I reckon anyone who's bought one of the last Commodores as an investment, should stick to their day job. But, I do think they'll become collectible one day. Do I care? Not in the slightest. Although they certainly started off that way. I know of some buyers with one of each of the LE's, 4 X Magnum utes etc. It'll only take time and natural attrition. Even bog stock 202 Monaro's, 215 garden variety Chargers, and 161 LJ Torana's as examples are bringing good money these days. Many multiples of their new car price. The only thing stopping these following a similar path, is if there are no old car enthusiasts at all in future. Highly unlikely. It still doesn't make them a good investment though. The key to that is jumping into the market at the right time, just before they take off. It's crystal ball stuff.
    I can't see this happening with the Stinger though. time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 5:34 PM
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  19. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    It was a low speed get off, but the bike bounced off the edge of a gutter hard enough to put a hairline crack in the crankcase.
    A couple of young girls helped him lift the bike up...:D Then he rode it home.
    Noticed a weep when he got home.
     
  20. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    Sounds repairable then. Maybe time to hang up the goggles though?
     

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