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[LS3] WN Caprice LS3 to GTS power - how?

Discussion in 'LSx Development and Modification' started by VXBaz, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Hi, I'm a chauffer driver/owner operator and also a car nut and am considering upgrading my current WN seies 1 (6.0 litre) to a newer LS3 powered WN Series 2...just because I want to own the last and greatest Caprice ever made.

    What are the differences between the GTS LS3 (325kw?) and the standard LS3 in the caprice? What would I need to do to the standard LS3 that comes in the WNII Caprice to make GTS type power? I also do Uber Black and Uber X and I'd get a kick out of picking people up in a "mobster" Caprice.

    Will cams and heads be involved or is just a matter of OTR, exhaust and tune? I'd also like to add the resonator as well for more interior sound. Is it possible to retrofit one to a caprice? I know I could just buy a Grange but they're very hard to find and very pricey still at this early stage. I just want to build my own surprising Caprice.

    Thanks.
     
  2. 426Cuda

    426Cuda SUBLIME!

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    If 325kw is all you're looking for, a tune with no other mods will surpass that. Add some tri-y headers, HF cats, and an OTR, and you'll achieve around 380, with a glorious note and cabin noise from the OTR to boot.
     
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  3. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Even better! Thanks.
     
  4. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Was just talking to a guy who swore black and blue that a custom tune only lasts 500kms then it "reverts back to the factory setting and your usual driving style". I argued that if that were the case then tuners would go out of business due to massive refunds or seeing as though I drive about 500kms a day I'd have to get a re-tune every morning before going out...lol. He argued "people can't tell because they don't thrash their cars all the time". I stopped discussing it with him because he was adamant but he said he got this from one of the "biggest" tuners in the state.

    Surely he can't be right. He argued that unless you get a "piggy back" ECU that over rode the standard ECU it would happen and he'd put money on it. Is that what tuners do? They wire in an over ride ECU to hold the tune?
     
  5. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    what he is saying is BS, if he wants to see if changes revert back ill zero out all his fueling tables and then see if it ever starts/runs again...
     
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  6. vr304

    vr304 Active Member

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    Yip as above complete and utter BS
     
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  7. harrop.senator

    harrop.senator Well-Known Member

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    Take him up on the bet for a monkey that should cover your non reverting tune almost.
     
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  8. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    I strongly suspected it was BS. Thanks for confirming but he was so insistant that I thought I'd do a quick "fact check" on here.

    He also said that 17% extra power "couldn't be felt or noticed". I know that's BS because I've strongly felt as little as 10% extra power in other cars.

    Going back to my WN Series 2 upgrade; apart from the LS3 engine (and different wheels) is anything else different between the WN Series 1 and WN Series 2? I was in at a Holden dealership getting a new steering rack (free recall repair) and asked about the differences. He didn't know too much but said the series 2 looked a little different in the front. I can't see any differences. I'm particularly interested in any mechanical differences in engine accessories, brakes, suspension and exhaust though. Or are they identical except for the engine?

    Prices are starting to come down slowly so I'm getting an itchy wallet. I know (unless I'm pushing it) I probably won't feel much difference between the LS2 and LS3 (or will I?) but I just want the last of the last to keep. I'll work it to pay it off then will probably retire it and keep it as a personal car.

    Also, speaking of the tune; Is there any way to customise the tune to get more punch in the low end rev range (1,000 - 3,000) instead of maximum rev power? I drive it a lot and really use the power for fast take offs up to 60, 80 and 100 then I back off (my living relies on my license) so I really want that push in the back to be emphasised at the lower rev ranges. It'd be cool to bunch as much power into those lower rev ranges. Not sure what's possible though.

    Appreciate all input.
     
  9. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    anything is possible and when a tune is done the whole area should be improved idle, cruise, WOT, mid throttle... all areas, with a stock ls2-3 the ls2 has its torque at a lower rpm but the ls3 has more higher hp potential, the ls3 also has the better parameters in the ecu compared to earlier e38's
     
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  10. Smashfist

    Smashfist Active Member

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    Nope. A tune will show gains over the whole lot - particular power curves are dictated by choice of hardware (i.e. camshaft, heads, headers and exhaust, intake manifold etc.
     
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  11. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Thanks, I suppose an overall increase in power everywhere isn't a bad thing. I'm toying with the idea of an OTR and headers. OTR is OTR but what about headers? Which design would be more likely to boost the lower regions? I've heard 4-into-1 sounds better but 4-into-1 traditionally improves upper region power. You'll have to forgive my old school thinking but I'm keen to not make any "dumb" mods as I'm a bit new to ECU controlled vehicles. I want to improve the performance without sacrificing low speed drive-ability and manners (for obvious reasons).
     
  12. Smashfist

    Smashfist Active Member

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    Realistically unless you're chasing big power headers will have stuff all difference. Someone a while back did a bunch of comparisons and you'd never feel the difference at the seat-of-the-pants tester. Something like 10kw was over the whole lot
     
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  13. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    i should say a tuner SHOULD improve power everywhere but many just do a WOT run to show power, it takes time to get all the part throttle areas right and maximized but if done correct the engine is so much better and more efficient
     
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  14. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Good to know, that just saved me a lot of money. I would like a bit more burble though. A passenger the other week asked me if it was an electric car - they're that quiet. I'd like it to sound (at least a bit more) like a V8. So as far as sound goes; is there a muffler delete or replacement that would offer a bit more burble and V8 sound? I hope you can see what I'm going for. I drive these cars for over 8 hours a day and I'd like to eek out as much enjoyment as possible - being a car guy 'n all.
     
  15. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    usually just deleting a muffler makes them sound crap, what would sound good and deep is just the difillipo 2.5" nice sound and still quiet at cruise
     
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  16. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    You can tune a car for higher load in the lower range, both ecu and tcm. Mainly tcm and convertor slip, second gear start, use the torque model to cover torque load and delivery.
    Bolt-ons are typically chosen for high rpm peak, for example typical OTR is not ideal for low rpm delivery.
    Sure Di Filipo headers as suggested have a torque ring / accelerator in the collector to overcome the typical problem of high load at low rpm, but is not the same as low rpm tuned length scavaging.
    Other header designs are specifically made to deliver torque earlier but they will not sound like 4-1 with the kiss that I gather you are looking for.
    Here is an engine tuned for high load off idle, plenty of stock convertor slip and second gear take-off.
    Deep sound but from 4-2-1 and x-pipe at tuned location for low rpm scavenging:

    Result is more old school hydralastic 20 Kph to 100+ without much steam or scream:
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  17. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Interesting, thanks for your reply. Are there any tuners in Adelaide who can tune like this?
     
  18. MrBags

    MrBags Member

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    One more thing to consider is the potential for drone.
    I had a Caprice with a twin 3" Stainless system and the rear passengers had to put up with a very noticable drone on acceleration where as up the front it was not as bad at all. It was quite good at cruise rpm though.
    This same problem was worse in another Caprice in the family with a 2.5" Stainless System.
    If you have customers in the back, it may be something to consider.
    Potentially a Varex type exhaust may be an option for you?
     
  19. VXBaz

    VXBaz Member

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    Yeah, any drone is unacceptable in a working car. All I'd want is "some V8 sound". A lady the other day asked me if it was an electric car. It's that quiet. I need some sound. It doesn't have to cackle like a super car. Varex style does seem like the sensible option. Especially if there's an over ride for when I'm cruising by myself.

    Thanks for your post. Helpful.
     
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  20. monstar

    monstar Naturally as-pirated

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    HSV bimodal are high quality, cheap and easy.

    For about $500.

    Whereas Chinese X-Force haz apps and stuff to impress your clients and wile away hours in the queue by entertaining yourself and make other limo drivers jelly with V8 muffler tricks:

    For several thousand.
     
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