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[Ecotec] xr6 turbo injectors vs Vt standard injectors - economy

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by venerableChicken, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. venerableChicken

    venerableChicken New Member

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    Ok, I just bought a 99 VT V6 wagon with 255000kms in reasonable condition and am cleaning it up to get it on the road. Just pulled the plenum off as i am putting on mace 25mm manifold insulator and 12mm plenum spacer. I was horrified how filthy and carboned up the whole inside was (worse than pics i have seen posted so far) which got me wondering about the injectors as i have it apart.

    I have a brand new set of unused xr6 turbo injectors sitting around doing nothing. I know they are bigger than stock but am wondering will my car take a hit in the economy department with the bigger (but new) injectors or is it worth putting the stock old ones back in?

    I do plan on doing some mods to this car in the future but they will mostly be aimed at improving bottom end and midrange as it is a work car not a race/hoon car
     
  2. Kiddo

    Kiddo You're serious bro?!

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    If the injectors are rooted, get new stock ones.

    I don't think anyone has ever had to upgrade to bigger injectors in an N/A Ecotec. No point really.
     
  3. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    You can clean up the inside of the intake / plenum by CAREFULLY using throttle body cleaner and a cloth , it will run like crap for a bit but it comes up ok , as for the injectors there is little gain to had in replacing them with anything other than factory ones .
     
  4. venerableChicken

    venerableChicken New Member

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    The entire intake is off the engine and getting a proper cleanup before the mace spacers go on, so no need for the careful part. The carbon/oil deposits where the egr comes in were coming off in big thick slabs!!!

    In regards to the injectors, not looking for performance gains as I know that there is no gain to be had over the standard ones, my question is, will brand new injectors work better than 14 year old ones without using more fuel due to being bigger??? Will the computer learn around these injectors? I have them and they aren't being used for anything else and it is all apart anyway, so no extra effort putting them in.
     
  5. Trikky

    Trikky Member

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    you won't need to upgrade your injectors on a stock NA V6 but if it is worked then it is a different story
    I currently need to upgrade mine as mine hit 91% duty cycle - should be around 80-85% max, mind you I am also geting close to the 10,000hz limit of the MAF sensor as well - hit 9400hz

    This is with a stock stroke, NA ecotec - cammed/full rebuild/rebuilt non ported heads/extractors/full mandrell bend exhaust/69mm TB and a MACE CAI
    full custom tune helps as well
     
  6. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Yes new ones will work better. No the computer will not learn, a re-tune is necessary. The ECU simply tells the injector to fire and it fires. To my knowledge it (particularly the Delco) doesn't have a way to measure fuel rates, they're set by the tuner.

    After a bit of googling, it seems the XR6T injectors are similar to the L67 injectors in flow (somebody feel free to correct). So to answer your question, running the stock tune with XR6T injectors will mean it will run hell rich.
     
  7. venerableChicken

    venerableChicken New Member

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    Thanks for that. That is the info I was chasing. Stocko's back in it is then
     
  8. Tsunamix

    Tsunamix Active Member

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    Memory says the XR6T injectors are 40Lb, NA Ecottec are 32lb (??) and L67 are 36lb .....
     
  9. Big-Al

    Big-Al Banned

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    You'd need to retune for the larger injectors or it will run rich, resulting in premature spark plug failure, CAT failure, accelerated engine wear, increased fuel consumption.
    It would be cheaper to either get your current injectors cleaned or buy new OEMs.
     
  10. vyseriesII

    vyseriesII The Blessed Hellride

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    na are more like 17lbs/h. The l67 are 36lbs/h No need for 36 or 40lbs/h on a stock na.
     
  11. venerableChicken

    venerableChicken New Member

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    just for interest, the xr6 injectors are 29lbs and from looking around the vt ones are about 20lbs.
     
  12. Allan - 99 VT Ecotec V6

    Allan - 99 VT Ecotec V6 New Member

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    I need similar advice,
    So I have a 1999 VT with an Ecotec V6

    Existing Mods:
    K&N High Flow Filter,
    Lightly Bored Throttle Body,
    MACE 25mm Plenum Spacer,
    MACE 25mm LIM Insulator,
    Lightly Bored, Longer, Intake Runners,
    -
    SS Long Tube Headers,
    That Merge Into 2x 2.5” Pipes,
    That Merges Into 1x 3.0” High Flow Exhaust
    Including a 3” High Flow Cat & 3x Straight Through Mufflers

    What should I do next to get the most efficient use of power out of a naturally aspirated Engine ?
    (Without disassembling the engine block itself)

    Bigger Injectors ?
    High Ratio Rockers ?
    Piggy Back ECU or Chip Tune ?
    Bigger Throttle Body ?
    Balance Shaft Delete ?
    Double Row Timing Chain & Crow Cam ?
    Stiffer Valve Springs ?
    Higher Volume Fuel Pump ?
    Thinner Head Gasket (To increase compression) ?
    More Timing ?
    Running 98 Octane or Higher ?
    Additional or Bigger Oil Cooler ?
     
  13. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    None of these items are a restriction N/A. A cam N/A really isn't worth it either. Timing chain and valve springs will only really be an advantage if you're properly racing the car or need to change them anyway.

    The best thing to do is basic bolt ons (exhaust mainly) and a mail order tune. If you really want to splash some cash get the roller rockers and an intake, but the tune is key to actually getting the most out of any changes you make. Contact The1, Delcowizzid, or go to the PCMHacking forums. Avoid ebay chips at all costs.
     
  14. Allan - 99 VT Ecotec V6

    Allan - 99 VT Ecotec V6 New Member

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    I do plan on driving this engine fairly hard, I mentioned things like timing chain, balance shaft delete, and, stiffer valve springs purely for the sake of reliability. I don't expect those things to make any extra power, just to survive the power a, cam, rockers, and a tune might add.
    As I understand it, cams are best on N/A engines because of the extra valve overlap they add. (apparently, valve overlap is very bad for boost) Am I right about that?
    As it stands, I think I'll save up for a set of rockers, and get a chip/tune from MACE Performance. Don't worry I wouldn't touch ebay chips with a ten-foot pole.
    Also, the car is an auto, I think converting it to a manual will, at the very least, make the car feel a little faster/more responsive. Is that so ?

    And, I do have all the bolt ons, the intake side of the engine is as good as it can get, and the exhaust side has full fibreglass wrapped headers that go into a 3" exhaust (theoretically) capable of flowing 450kw of gasses. So now I have to start modding the inside of the engine, nothing left to do on the outside. Thanks heaps for your advice. It's very, very much appreciated. :)
     
  15. delcowizzid

    delcowizzid on holiday

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    Heads cam compression headers and tuning is where all the power is.or bolt on a turbo kit and make 3x the power for cheaper
     
  16. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    It's not that cams are bad, it's just their return per dollar is poor for this engine, especially considering you might need to dyno tune depending on how extreme the cam is (that and Delco dyno tuners are getting thin on the ground). If you're aiming for a max power build using a cam on an Ecotec it will make the car difficult to drive as a daily also. TBH I think you'd get what you're looking for by just going to manual, they have much more get up and go with a 5 speed behind them.

    Just FYI too, valve overlap is totally dependent on the cam profile. You can get ones that have heaps, or ones that have none. Don't buy into the "Stage X" cam thing, the only thing that will tell you anything are the actual cam specs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

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