I use to hoon as much as the next guy when I was younger. Then I saw 3 of my best friends lying dead on the road, their parents crying over their lifeless bodies, after the driver of the car they were in went from bitumen to gravel at 180 kph. The car rolled and rolled into a padock and they died. :cry: As for the driver, he never suffered a scratch. I never hooned after that. In the final analysis, cars aren't the killers, as most 4 cyl jap buzz boxes go more than fast enough to kill lots of people, and again, whether it's 4PM or 4AM doesn't make a stick of difference. The real killers are the idiots behind the wheel. What changed my way of thinking was seeing dead friends. If you really want to change peoples driving habits, take them to a morgue. I was 20 then. I'm 37 now, and my eldest son turns 12 next April. That's when he starts Motorkhanas, so he can learn not only how to control a car, but that car clubs exist, and that is where you can go as far as you like, not on the road, because I never want to cry over his lifeless body like the parents of 3 of my best friends.
Don't know. No-one really kept in touch with him. What must have really made it sink in is that his house was located between the churh and cemetery, so all 3 hearses had to go past there. Personally, I'd have trouble living with it.
I have pretty strong feelings about this topic so forgive me if I start ranting. I am against the proposed new laws for many reasons, some of which I will state now. 1. I don't think new laws will work, it's all a load of bureaucratic nonsense with pollies trying to score with there demographic group. The young drivers who die and crash cars are generally not doing so because the car is too high powered or because its night or they are inexperienced, they are crashing because they are breaking road rules. I have seen a 17 year old die in a crash in a stock lower powered car, in broad daylight alone, reason he died- speeding. 2. If these drivers can not respect basic road rules and laws what makes people think they will respect restrictions on high powered cars or curfews? 3. It is impractical, there are many considerations, such as p platers who study or work late, parents- I am a parent and will soon be a p plater, now if there is a restriction on number of passengers allowed to carry what am I to do take one child with me and leave other unattended at home? Some L and P platers would only have access to high powered vehicles. Take following situation- a learners parents possess only one car, a V8 commodore which the purchased for extra power when they tow their boat. Now what car is the learner to drive in? Why should they be forced to buy another car? Wouldn't it be wiser to learn to drive a V8 under the supervision of a responsible adult driver rather than jumping in one alone after you get off p plates? 4. Learners and P platers ( in NSW at least) currently are submitted to the toughest driving test and restrictions in history, they have previously brought in logbooks and minimum hours, increased p plate length to 3 years, subjected them to 0.00 blood alcohol content. All of these measures were brought in for the same supposed reason why the new proposed laws are being considered. If the current laws have not prevented the accidents what makes people think more laws will. It's a part of life, there will always be idiots on the road and some will be p platers, however the majority of p platers are normal law obiding drivers. 5. So called hi powered cars such as new V8 commodores and Falcons even V6's are probably safer for younger drivers to be in than most low powered cars. Bigger cars with bigger motors tend to be safer to have a crash in, one only has to look at crash reports and statistics. They also tend to have extra safety features such as airbags, If I had a teenage child I would rather much rather him/her be in our Vt calais than say an excel in a crash. 6. It is another case of discrimination. I wonder if anyone has done a study into the number of crashes caused by the following groups: the elderly, asians, taxi driver, couriers, motorcyclists, volvo drivers, 4wd mums. Because in my experience, and talking to many other drivers they agree- these groups are far worse driver than p platers. It also doesn't seem right to me that the government can take taxes from these you people, and even send them to die at war entrusted with deadly weapons but when they get home their government doesnt even trust them enough to drive a v8. 7. This will not solve the problem- rather just delay the inevitable. If by chance it does decrease the number of fatal crashes p platers are involved in I'd put down money that the number of drivers straight off their p plates causing these accidents increases proportionately. 8. Every car regardless of power is a weapon, a crappy datsun 180b is just as capable of exceeding speed limits as a suped up wrx. 9.The problem whilst serious has been somewhat overstated. High performance/ power cars are IMO not 4cyl cars with fart cannons and stickers. Would be interesting to see the statistics for young driver fatalities in 'normal' cars. Of Course numbner of accidents amongst P platers is on the rise, its to be expected when you make them have p plates 3 times as long, dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out. 10. Too many fully licenced drivers are getting on their high horse and don't car about the problems that these proposed new laws will present to young drivers. I have heard countless times of these drivers saying " I dont give a **** it doesnt affect me". Well this is an outright selfish statement, they had their chance on p plates and would have had it a fair deal easier I bet. It's like they have had their rite of passage and don't care of others aren't alllowed same opportunity. Well thats about it for now I have many many more reasons why this is a bad idea and if you guys don't get sick of me ranting I might post a few more lol. BAN LOW PERFORMANCE DRIVERS NOT HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS!!!!!!!!!!
To take a different tack, I also blame the easy acquisition of finance for quite large amounts of money by young guys just starting out. Back in early 1982 when I started driving, nearly everyone had older model cheapo 4 cylinder cars or, if anything, a 6 cylinder Holden or Falcon or, if they were lucky, a Valiant (more bang for your buck with a hemi). You would have to rely on either mum and dad footing the deposit and going garantee on your loan (which was at something ridiculaous like 18 to 26% anyway...) and don't even think about a seventeen or eighteen year old walking into a bank and asking for money to buy a new SS Commodore or ESP 351 Falcon...the only advice would have been "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!" ,and laughter. V8's were few and far between amongst young guys, and the weapon of choice around here was something like a LJ Torana with a 202...that was what everyone aspired to own. At the drags which used to be held on a quiet road outside town every week, I think in four years I only saw a handful of V8's. They were around, to be sure, but it was mostly guys well into thier twenties who could afford to modify them and look after them, and usually didn't go caning them at the drags. My first "expensive" car was a 1980 Commodore, in 1984, and it cost me $6500, requiring my parents to sign up as well in case I couldn't make payments. I was in a fairly well paying job, full time, on a farm as a leading hand, and I was 19 years old, yet the finace company was a little wary of me. Then you had the fact that the cops would pull you over "just to check things out" all the time if you were an obviously young driver with either a late model or an expensive-looking car. The questions would run something like "Is this your car sir?", then "Are you sure it's your car?" ,and then "Can we see your licence and registration then please?". Almost all of us had to go through this regularly. Today though, by the look of things when I make a few observations around town, every eighteen year old with a job has banks and credit companies throwing money at them, in huge amounts, and you can't then blame the young guys for taking advantage of it when they suddenly discover that a 2-year-old WRX isn't outside thier budget, or that with Holden easy financing, they can plonk thier arse in an approved used SS Commodore for relatively easy payments. I don't know if there's really any solution to it.
I beleive a better solution to the problem would be a zero tolerance approach. These drivers are dying because they disobey road rules, they speed and they drive negligently. Instead of coppers being forced to worry about minor things like vehicle defects ( the rta could increase numbers and take over this duty). They should be out there booking these people- and when I say these people I dont just mean young people and p platers I mean all illegal drivers. Even more traffic cameras if it would help, if it gets drivers to slow down it can olny be good. Basically the idea is to try to catch as many of them before they have the chance to do something stupid. Granted some will drive with or without a licence so this wouldnt work on everyone. But those who drive unlicenced should have their arse thrown in gaol where they aren't going to hurt any of us.
1. Well don't know about other states but in VIc P-platers are restricted. 2. If a curfew is inplaced when people are off their P's they then have no night time experiance. So you then have no restrictions, so you have high powered car + no night time experiance = accident 3. This idea I wouldn't really object to, althought they should offer some sort of course to show your experiance to lower the probationary time. 4. Deffenitly all I did was read a book once and memorise a few things to get my L's, and then drive for around 15mins to get my P's. 5. Also agree as the main road into where I live is 110km/h and the worse condition ever. 6. Also agree to some extent, no need going over board.
This is what I think... Turboed, supercharged, rotaried, V8-engined cars should be banned from any P-plated driver (green or red). Sixes are alright but must be limited to 200kW. Strictly four cylinders on your Ls. No curfews, what if you have to rush your flatmate/relative/friend to hospital? Raise the legal alcohol limit to the full licence limit or something that can accept cough syrup or xmas cake, what do you do if you're sick as a dog?, keep getting sick until you have to be rushed to hospital yourself? Make Advanced Driving Courses mandatory and if you fail it, you lose your licence. I think they should do all this, rather than have the media make P platers look like total f---heads. After all, it's EXPERIENCE, not AGE!
I disagree about 'strictly' 4 cylinders on your Ls. I learned to drive in a V6 commodore and I'm glad I did, because basically ALL I drive are commodores, with the exception of the Camira I used to drive, and now the Getz I drive for work. If anything, they're better off learning in a RWD 6 cylinder car so they learn to control the throttle - I've always said that and I'm RIGHT. I know a guy who went from a crappy old 4 cylinder front wheel drive Magna to an AU XR6. He SPUN the car on a straight stretch of road in the wet because he didn't realise just how huge the difference was. From what he said, he started turning or something, and then all of a sudden he was facing backwards. So if anything, people should learn to drive in sixes.
Limited to 200kw?? What the hell? How about 100kw. It's not so much about the power, its more power to weight, for example, my mates worked gemini goes as hard as my basically stocko vl, what do gemi's weigh? 700kgs or something? so he'd be lucky to have 80hp but because its so light its dangerous. You can spin the wheels in any car- especially in the wet, and hugely contributed by suspension (chopped, stiff or soft) and tyres. Once again referring to my mates gemini back when he had 10 dollar rear tyres on. Driving it home in the wet for him one night while he was out, came around the corner at my house doing about 30 in second, not even half throttle and she started spinning. Last night I do believe I hit a bit of oil on the road changed into second, about a quarter throttle and she went nuts on me.. all accidental. Anyway, going to Garths post. 1. I've got nothing against restrictions, however I don't want people with their cars now to have to sell them to buy something trash. Basically if restrictions were to come in it would be for up and coming P platers. If they have a problem with it.. Too bad. 2. Curfew- within reason yes. alot of young people do night fill/ deliveries etc and would need to drive for their livelyhood, you can't take that away.. So notes from work would be necessary. However, one thing I'm thinking is what happens when your mates all go clubbing, they're drunk and they need someone to pick them up. Do a) They drive home drunk- b) They pay some bullshit price for a taxi to rip them off or c) call a mate. It's c obviously, but how are they going to do that if we're banned. Solution: Cheaper taxi rates, hugely cheaper taxi / public transport rates for P platers between our restricted hours. 3.Extend time on P plates.. Well in qld its 3 years on P's. Thats with 4 points and 0 BAC. I think this is fine as long as penalties are harsh. 4. No doubt there needs to be better driver education, build a skid pan/ defensive driver course into the licence test. The defensive driving instructor CAN fail you if you have a bad attitude or can't get a grasp on things. 5.No doubt roads need to be improved. 6. Harsher penalties - yes. When I lost my licence a year back I was really pissed off... 4 points bla bla, 270 dollars.. 3months without a licence.. It slowed me down and made me alot more aware, but making the fine double- or even just one more point is what I reckon. If young people whinge about not being able to pay a 500 dollar fine? Then they'll think twice about speeding or breaking the laws in the first place- and theres always payment options, and in my honest opinion theres no way people would not be able to pay it over time. However, people would sook about police revenue raising unless that money was pumped back into road improvement and driver education. In conclusion, I'm a P plater, and I agree with everything thats been said to make up and coming P platers better drivers, I mean, I'll be older soon, and I don't wanna see these kids speeding around the place. I'd like to see an increased police presence aswell- Police don't have to even book people to make them slow down and behave.
what use is there in having engine capacity restrictions? sure a tubo charged r33 skyline can pump out well over 200+kWs where as a little corrolla/barina putz out 90kWs etc both vehicles can exceed speeds of 110kms and both can have their wheels spin out and hurl into a fatal accident there is no budget car available for young drivers that will save them reagrdless of the engine capacity i believe accidents all reflect on the drivers attitude
i think they would rather people have corollas because they are more controlable than 200kw... no matter what you still get idiots going sideways killing them selves, but you some cant do it by accident if they have only 90kw
i live in wa and a 17yo can drive watever car they want none of this green blue orange purple p plate crap
yes i know im not driving yet but i still got something to say. why resrtict L's to 4's. what ifs this particular 4 has as much power as a 6. it defeats the purpose. now around my mates i talk about hooning and that cr*p. but ill never acctually do any of it. cause i care for myself. my future passengers and my car. now lets say i hoon abit and have my car taken away. yeh ill put up with it till they give it back (isnt it 48 hours). i dont like the idea of repeat offenders having cars taken permenantly. it will only make em buy cheaper, less safe cars. thus killing them easier. would the gov rather em in a performance car will good brakes and decent safety features. or a old pos car with no brakes and no safety what-so-ever. im all for people to have nice cars but by the same token they should know how they handle, how the ride and how they react to changes in the road (dips cracks holes etc).
Who, in these forums or anywhere, has never done something stupid in a car?? I am a P-plater, i have a loud car and used to flog it a little. I know its a tragedy that under 25s are over represented in the stats, but, most statistics count 13 to 25. Not all of whom are driving. There is no easy answer, but i suggest we ban really old drivers instead.
Well I'm sure some restrictions are good, but I reckon they tend to over shoot the mark and generally enforce the wrong ones. I have no problem with them boosting the hours you have to do from 50 to 100 or so. I did about 150, and it didn't really do me harm. Speed restrictions are one of the things I have a major problem with. Sure, as of July it'll be Speed and we have your P's, but frankly that's crap. In the past week I've done about... 1500 km, mostly out of town. In that whole time I've seen... what, 3 cops, none on 'rural' roads at all, all in town. In that 1500 km, I've also seen about 40 red P Platers pass me, the cars in front of me and disappear out of site. This is my problem with speed restrictions, obviously there are too few cops to enforce them, so they may as well raise them to those of a full lisence. Either way people will still do the same speeds. As far as engines go, I agree with DavidPartay... I went from a 4 to a 6, and frankly at first, the difference scared the crap out of me. Being realistic, the list of banned cars should be extended to include some of those high end Japanese imports, and the odd straight six as well. I know of about 40 guys in my town on their reds or greens in cars that are far too powerful to them, and they are only 4's. The other day for example I was sitting at the lights, and one of them pulled up next to me. He was on his greens so I assumed he new to handle his car, but when the lights changed he put his foot down too hard, and the car kicked out of his lane. If I hadn't taken off he would have swiped my tail, and done a fair bit of damage. But as far as I can see, the government aren't gonna bring in any changes regarding high end 4's. I have other problems/suggested improvements with the system, but I figure I shouldn't bore you all too much
