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Zb commorde haters

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vs-lover

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Immortality

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I was surprised too, unfortunately I was in a hurry or I would have stopped and got a pic. I suspect they were HSV's TBH as they are a big HSV dealership.
 

Yond

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Back in 2013 the ZB was flagged as the next Commodore, it always going to be FWD or AWD and no V8 option but still with the possibility of being built in Australia. Thank your state and federal governments for that not getting up.

At 01:18 in the video, Dr David Johnson, Holden Australia Lead Development Engineer: "This [the ZB] is the Commodore we've been working on since 2011. So, this was always going to be the next car."

 

Calaber

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In 2011, Holden still had a local manufacturing future. It wasn't until 2013 that the axe dropped, so when he made those statements in good faith.
So, if it had been locally made, would the Commodore nameplate have been acceptable? Those who complain that no eights and FWD don't make it a "real" Commodore are clearly out of date with their thinking. The motoring world is changing dramatically and even in the US, RWD has been gradually losing ground to FWD. V8's are still dominant but in a diminishing range of cars. So, a question for the ZB haters. Just how long do you think the VF could have continued in production after October 2017? Given that the VE cost over a billion to develop way back in the early 2000's, how much do you think a new model would have cost to develop for a market that increasingly wasn't interested? Honestly, I wonder what some guys are smoking when they bitch about dropping the V8, RWD, etc. What's it like in cloud cuckoo land?
 

Derekthetree

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I was surprised too, unfortunately I was in a hurry or I would have stopped and got a pic. I suspect they were HSV's TBH as they are a big HSV dealership.

I was quite amused when I got a courtesy car from the dealer for my power steering recall.

I figured I'd get a ZB, or a Captiva perhaps. Normally dealers like to put you in the latest stuff to tempt you out of your old ride.
Nope, was in a VFII SV6, which must be 2 years old by now...
 

figjam

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Does anybody remember a Mitsubishi 380 ? No ? Anybody seen one lately ? No ?
I realise that 15 years ago is a long time in car years ( more than dog years), but back then, if Australians wanted a large(ish) FWD sedan, they would have bought it. They didn’t.

The 380 was not a plug and play like the Camry, it was developed from a US Galant (not unlike the original VB) and pushed, prodded, and massaged into an Australian developed and manufactured car on a shoestring budget.
I had one as a rental for 3 weeks in Tasmania (no, I did use my money to buy it, before somebody accuses me ) but with 4 adults on board with associated luggage, (who needs a SUV ?) and I was surprised by the interior space, and absence of FWD biased handling.
It deserved to succeed. It didn’t because Australians did not buy FWD large sedans. And that was still the thinking in 2011. Holden should have known that, but hindsight is great.
Maybe the RWD Torana Mk2 and the AWD ‘Nullabor’ SUV could have saved Holden. If you can ignore the GFC, currency exchange rate, and GM management attitudes.
Now, Australians still don’t buy large FWD sedans, they buy large FWD SUVs, and large SUVs are just an appliance.
The large RWD sedan is a dinosaur, and so am I.

Hey.. Holden ! Where's my bloody VE Monaro ? Ohh …. you mean my 1.18 Biante model is closest I'll get ? Bugga !
 

Derekthetree

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the AWD ‘Nullabor’ SUV could have saved Holden.

Given how popular both entry level and premium SUVs are now (Merc and BMW will have to invent new letters/numbers soon to squeeze them all in), I think something like the Nullabor would have been a big seller for Holden
 

mpower

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I was quite amused when I got a courtesy car from the dealer for my power steering recall.

I figured I'd get a ZB, or a Captiva perhaps. Normally dealers like to put you in the latest stuff to tempt you out of your old ride.
Nope, was in a VFII SV6, which must be 2 years old by now...

I got a Colorado ZR1 or whatever it was called, it was hideous.
 

Calaber

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Given how popular both entry level and premium SUVs are now (Merc and BMW will have to invent new letters/numbers soon to squeeze them all in), I think something like the Nullabor would have been a big seller for Holden
It probably should have been made instead of the VE. It would have been "on target" with the changing market.
 

Brettly-2008

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Those who complain that no eights and FWD don't make it a "real" Commodore are clearly out of date with their thinking. The motoring world is changing dramatically and even in the US, RWD has been gradually losing ground to FWD. V8's are still dominant but in a diminishing range of cars. So, a question for the ZB haters. Just how long do you think the VF could have continued in production after October 2017? Given that the VE cost over a billion to develop way back in the early 2000's?

Everyone knows Holden didn't have the money to develop another 'VE-VF' platform, that's been thrashed to death. And how is it "clearly out-of-date thinking" to still want a Commodore to retain a V8 option and RWD/AWD? BMW, Audi, M-B et al still sell new V8 RWD sedans and estates, so it's not dinosaur thinking at all. I'd say Holden was "clearly out-of step" when it decided to give Commodore buyers a vehicle with contrary specifications to what it had always been. AWD across the board and a V8 option would've been a smarter step (hello HSV) but as we know Holden didn't have the money.

And as for the USA, you can blame CAFE regulations for the early push for FWD cars -horrible handling, over-powered FWD cars.

I'm not hating on the ZB -never have- but if I wanted a FWD imported car ZB would barely make my short list.
 
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