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Discussion in 'ZB Holden Commodore (2018)' started by Stuntman69, Jan 14, 2020.
Always thought NZ was a bit behind the times
I was surprised too, unfortunately I was in a hurry or I would have stopped and got a pic. I suspect they were HSV's TBH as they are a big HSV dealership.
At 01:18 in the video, Dr David Johnson, Holden Australia Lead Development Engineer: "This [the ZB] is the Commodore we've been working on since 2011. So, this was always going to be the next car."
In 2011, Holden still had a local manufacturing future. It wasn't until 2013 that the axe dropped, so when he made those statements in good faith.
So, if it had been locally made, would the Commodore nameplate have been acceptable? Those who complain that no eights and FWD don't make it a "real" Commodore are clearly out of date with their thinking. The motoring world is changing dramatically and even in the US, RWD has been gradually losing ground to FWD. V8's are still dominant but in a diminishing range of cars. So, a question for the ZB haters. Just how long do you think the VF could have continued in production after October 2017? Given that the VE cost over a billion to develop way back in the early 2000's, how much do you think a new model would have cost to develop for a market that increasingly wasn't interested? Honestly, I wonder what some guys are smoking when they bitch about dropping the V8, RWD, etc. What's it like in cloud cuckoo land?
I was quite amused when I got a courtesy car from the dealer for my power steering recall.
I figured I'd get a ZB, or a Captiva perhaps. Normally dealers like to put you in the latest stuff to tempt you out of your old ride.
Nope, was in a VFII SV6, which must be 2 years old by now...
Does anybody remember a Mitsubishi 380 ? No ? Anybody seen one lately ? No ?
I realise that 15 years ago is a long time in car years ( more than dog years), but back then, if Australians wanted a large(ish) FWD sedan, they would have bought it. They didn’t.
The 380 was not a plug and play like the Camry, it was developed from a US Galant (not unlike the original VB) and pushed, prodded, and massaged into an Australian developed and manufactured car on a shoestring budget.
I had one as a rental for 3 weeks in Tasmania (no, I did use my money to buy it, before somebody accuses me ) but with 4 adults on board with associated luggage, (who needs a SUV ?) and I was surprised by the interior space, and absence of FWD biased handling.
It deserved to succeed. It didn’t because Australians did not buy FWD large sedans. And that was still the thinking in 2011. Holden should have known that, but hindsight is great.
Maybe the RWD Torana Mk2 and the AWD ‘Nullabor’ SUV could have saved Holden. If you can ignore the GFC, currency exchange rate, and GM management attitudes.
Now, Australians still don’t buy large FWD sedans, they buy large FWD SUVs, and large SUVs are just an appliance.
The large RWD sedan is a dinosaur, and so am I.
Hey.. Holden ! Where's my bloody VE Monaro ? Ohh …. you mean my 1.18 Biante model is closest I'll get ? Bugga !
Given how popular both entry level and premium SUVs are now (Merc and BMW will have to invent new letters/numbers soon to squeeze them all in), I think something like the Nullabor would have been a big seller for Holden
I got a Colorado ZR1 or whatever it was called, it was hideous.
It probably should have been made instead of the VE. It would have been "on target" with the changing market.
Everyone knows Holden didn't have the money to develop another 'VE-VF' platform, that's been thrashed to death. And how is it "clearly out-of-date thinking" to still want a Commodore to retain a V8 option and RWD/AWD? BMW, Audi, M-B et al still sell new V8 RWD sedans and estates, so it's not dinosaur thinking at all. I'd say Holden was "clearly out-of step" when it decided to give Commodore buyers a vehicle with contrary specifications to what it had always been. AWD across the board and a V8 option would've been a smarter step (hello HSV) but as we know Holden didn't have the money.
And as for the USA, you can blame CAFE regulations for the early push for FWD cars -horrible handling, over-powered FWD cars.
I'm not hating on the ZB -never have- but if I wanted a FWD imported car ZB would barely make my short list.
I am interested in what you would choose in the specific segment the ZB competes in.
V8 buyers were never going to be happy with the ZB engine options. Me included!
I'm a bit surprised though that V6 buyers weren't all over it. Very good car and in my experience/opinion an improved drive over a V6 VF
First off, like many here I am p'd off at what GM US did to Holden and I think the VF was a great car. I also thought the company should have retired the nameplate and just gone with "Insignia" or a new nameplate altogether. That doesn't mean that I damn the ZB in any way and, in fact, I'm thinking of buying one. A dealer not far from me in Melbourne has a group of '18 ZB RS models with less than 10k on the ODOs selling for around the 26k mark (shows the terrible depreciation of these cars).
We currently own a VF Evoke wagon that is still in pristine condition...all standard save for the cargo barrier, towbar (never used) and blind spot monitoring. We bought the car so we could transport our beloved dog in comfort. She has since passed away (after 16 years of good life) and now neither the missus or I have the heart to get another dog. So she's been saying we should "go smaller" or "get one of those SUV things." Me...I don't want a truck or SUV...no bloody way! Heavy on fuel...expensive on tyres...the works. So I showed her the ZBs and made a case for all the safety tech and the fact that it has more go than the Evoke (which, although quite good was never rocketship material like our previous car). Now she wants to know if we will have troubles with recalls (as we did with the wagon needing the new steering rack..etc.) or face a shortage of parts or buy something that will be a lemon mechanically. So I told her I'd get online and look for opinions from other owners. Well...what do you guys think?
Those same zb,s are $23990 on carsales.
Just do it by the time this year end Holden will have moved 16000 zb,s since 2017.
More than Ford have sold in models -Escape SA Focus and Endura.
You never hear anyone talk about parts issues for Escape/Focus/Endura.
It's the availability of parts that's always going to be the issue, thus you lose even more money in depreciation.
How many years is Holden required to stock spares for any given model?
IIRC, the ACL only requires them to have parts available for a reasonable period of time.
Suitably grey like so many aspects of legislation.
@Skylarking might have more definitive info.
Yes @VS 5.0, on page 31 of the Victorian guide to ACL I found on the WWW states “manufacturers or importers guarantee they will take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities for a reasonable time after purchase”
As a side comment, I believe the was some other law (or interpretation) that required parts be provided for 10 years post sales for the product ended (but can’t remember what law it was)... and that was in the days of 3 year manufacturers warranties...
In the context of VF’s, the last units sold were in 2018/2019 or maybe 2020 timeframe and all with a 7 year manufacturers warranty. So any reasonable consumer would expect parts to be available for a reasonable time after warranty has expired which should take parts availability to some years after 2025/2026/2027 Yes it’s a higher standard than ACL but what idiot consumer would buy a car where parts supply stopped at end of warranty
Sadly, as you say, the ACL is suitably vague in regards to spare parts provision that it just adds to the stress of getting parts and thus is of little help
BUT if a vehicle can’t be repaired in a “reasonable time frame” within the fuzzy spare parts provision window, then the repair becomes a major fault under ACL (page 16)
So, if Holden’s parts supply are months away and your car will thus be off the road until it’s repaired... this issue can become a major fault under ACL. In that case ask for a full purchase price refund under an ACL major fault condition This may be enough to get Holden off it’s butt so they send the part via airmail at their costs, instead of waiting for a container to fill up for the slow sail to Terra Australis while you’re stuck at home without a drivable car
PS: IANAL and TINLA
An interesting aspect in all of this is what happens IF GM decide to close Holden leaving no part support ?
Can't see the ACCC or anyone else having a win against an American corporate that has no presence in Aus.
One thing I've always found is that the availability of parts was only important mechanical stuff that kept a car going such as safety stuff eg. Brakes, lights etc. while all other cosmetic stuff was deleted soon after a vehicle was finished with its production run.
See how you go ordering and getting trim components for VF now as they will already be starting to get thin within GMH's warehouse in Dandenong.
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