Zb commorde haters

[87VLCALAIS]

Any part I want for my VF is a Supercheap Auto (etc.) away. Easy. No stress. I would be concerned about the same with a ZB.

What parts are you thinking of that you get from Supercheap?

The engines and transmissions are used in in other models sold in Australia. Brake pads will be off the shelf items. The same will apply for most mechanical items. Those sorts of parts shouldn't be a problem.

Sure model specific items like headlamp or taillights may be not as easy to source as time goes on.

 

[kos]

Yes that's right. Equinox uses same transmission and 2 litre motor. Acadia uses same transmission and same 3.5 motor.
And they have sold 12000 plus so far.
12000 is a lot more than other brands models -more than Ford Escape Endura and Focus for example in the last two years.
I never see anything on the internet saying parts will be a problem for those Fords.

 

[Calaber]

Holden's name has been attached to imports since the HB Torana in 1967. Since then, it has adorned cars from Korea, Japan, Thailand, Germany, Britain, Belgium, Mexico and the US. It's certainly nothing new. GM clearly recognised the value of the Holden brand in Australia. The export successes of the 60's clearly failed to establish Holden as a readily identified brand overseas, whereas Chevrolet is universally known. In Europe some years ago, I saw just how widely the name was used and how cheaply it was marketed, when I saw a Daewoo Matiz badged as a Chevrolet. Who would seriously attach such a recognised name to such a dismal vehicle? Obviously, GM.

 

[Immortality]

So the ZB Commodore isn’t really a Commodore, according to some on here.

Obviously there’s some people who need a history lesson. 41 years ago the original VB Commodore was an Australianised rebadged Opel Rekord. It might have been built in Australia but the bulk of the design was German with an Australian engine. Hell even the Commodore name was stolen from Opel.

The 1978 Holden Commodore really wasn’t Australian either, certainly not to the extent of the good old faithful Kingswood it replaced. I don’t recall any outcry then. Mind you there wasn’t any social media then for every Tom Dick or Harry to get on their soap box and make an unholy row about Holden’s change in models. Life went on and the public took to the new car in droves.

Fast forward 40 or so years and the wheel has almost turned a full circle, the ZB Commodore being a rebadged Opel Insignia with Australian input with the installation of a V6 engine and suspension tuning for local conditions. One major difference being the car isn’t built in Australia anymore. One other major difference is we now have social media where every Tom Dick and Harry can voice their “expert opinion”.

A definition of “expert” ;

Ex - as in has been,
Spurt - a drip under pressure

Pretty well sums up some comments on here.

Holden’s decision to stop building cars in Australia was flagged in 2013, so there should be no surprise the new Commodore is imported. Rather than slagging Holden for the choice of replacement for the VF you guys should be applauding the fact that Holden was the last motor company to cease local manufacture. If there was anyone due for any slagging perhaps it should be directed at your state and federal governments for not providing an environment that supports local manufacturing.

Where was Holden to source the replacement vehicle from? There aren’t too many places where RHD vehicles are made. The Opel Insignia was about the only choice since Cadillac shelved their plans to manufacture for the RHD market. Cadillac may be an option in the future but right now it isn’t.

The knockers on here need to realise Holden didn’t have many choices to fill what is a diminishing market, that is the mid to large size sedan/station wagon market. They needed a range with at least a V6 since they were no longer able to offer a V8 option.

Mind you the V8 carried on much, much longer than it was ever envisaged. Anyone remember the V8’s to 98 catch cry when Holden was considering dropping the V8 in the 1990’s?

The Opel Insignia is the best option on offer and is a very good replacement for the VF.

Should the ZB had a name other than Commodore? Good question.

I can see the rationale for letting the Commodore name fade away with the demise of the Aussie built cars like Ford did with the Falcon replacing it with the Mondeo. However I can also see the rationale for keeping the Commodore name as people identify with that name.

Would the ZB have sold in better numbers in Australia with a different name? My guess it would have been a zero sum game. The ZB is selling well in New Zealand as a Commodore, at least as well as the VF was. You have to ask why it’s not doing the same in Australia.

I have my theories.

Correct to a point. Yes our Commodore started as an import concept car. After some testing it was found wanting in many areas. Holden fitted Aussie engines and reworked the suspension to suit local conditions. Chassis wise they used 2 different models to make our Commodore. So yes, our Commodore started life as an Opel but by the time it hit the dealerships it very much had a lot of Aussie in it and not simple badge engineering as the current ZB. As the Commodore was developed over the various generations it became more Holden and less Opel till we reached the VE which was 100% ours.

The current ZB is less Commodore than the first VB that hit the showroom floor in 1978.

One of my Uncles actually owned a early 80's Opel Senator so I've seen one first hand. Shame I never got any pictures of it.

The ZB is doing well here in NZ because the police use em. I see multiple police ZB cars for every civvi one. Mind you, the ZB doesn't stand out in the crowd of Japanese cars and the roads are more crowded with oversized utes and SUV's these days which is all you see at my local Holden dealership yard.

The ZB isn't a bad car, it just isn't a Commodore.

 

[figjam]

Correct to a point. Yes our Commodore started as an import concept car. After some testing it was found wanting in many areas. Holden fitted Aussie engines and reworked the suspension to suit local conditions. Chassis wise they used 2 different models to make our Commodore. So yes, our Commodore started life as an Opel but by the time it hit the dealerships it very much had a lot of Aussie in it and not simple badge engineering as the current ZB. As the Commodore was developed over the various generations it became more Holden and less Opel till we reached the VE which was 100% ours.

The current ZB is less Commodore than the first VB that hit the showroom floor in 1978.

One of my Uncles actually owned a early 80's Opel Senator so I've seen one first hand. Shame I never got any pictures of it.

The ZB is doing well here in NZ because the police use em. I see multiple police ZB cars for every civvi one. Mind you, the ZB doesn't stand out in the crowd of Japanese cars and the roads are more crowded with oversized utes and SUV's these days which is all you see at my local Holden dealership yard.

The ZB isn't a bad car, it just isn't a Commodore.

That is the point that seems to be lost on a lot of members on this forum who were not around at the time to remember the Kingswood / Commodore changeover. They seem to think that Holden just took Opels and made them in Australia, (or secretly imported them.)

My dirty secret …….. I hated early Commodores. Compared to Kingswoods (and derivatives), they had a stupid foreign name associated with boats, not a name that was instantly recognised as Australian. Their interior was cheap, poorly finished and if they had been a successor to the LJ Torana in 1974, they may have been worthy.
I ‘nearly’ bought a new VL Berlina (stupid foreign name). Our Honda Accord was too small for our needs at the time, and something bigger was needed.
I drove it into a Newcastle Holden dealer with that intention, and drove out in a used Nissan Skyline 2.4E 5 door hatch.
A more highly specified, luxury car for a lot less money, and I had no regrets with making that choice.

To me, Commodore did not mature until the VN. That model approximated what should have replaced the Kingswood for space and quality of finish, at least in the Calais (another stupid foreign name, should have been 'Premier') variety.
The wheel has turned, the boat has sunk, the ZB is no way related to an Australian Commodore, and as GM have no interest in it, it has as much chance of evolving into a Holden as a Mazda, a Lexus or a MG.

 

[figjam]

Does New Zealand count?

NZ is not an overseas export market. It is inter-state, like Tasmania.

 

[kos]

Wrong way round Figjam.
Australia is the West Island of Nz with a Tasmania below.

 

[Brettly-2008]

So the ZB Commodore isn’t really a Commodore, according to some on here.

Obviously there’s some people who need a history lesson. 41 years ago the original VB Commodore was an Australianised rebadged Opel Rekord. It might have been built in Australia but the bulk of the design was German with an Australian engine. Hell even the Commodore name was stolen from Opel.

The 1978 Holden Commodore really wasn’t Australian either, certainly not to the extent of the good old faithful Kingswood it replaced. I don’t recall any outcry then. Mind you there wasn’t any social media then for every Tom Dick or Harry to get on their soap box and make an unholy row about Holden’s change in models. Life went on and the public took to the new car in droves.

Fast forward 40 or so years and the wheel has almost turned a full circle, the ZB Commodore being a rebadged Opel Insignia with Australian input with the installation of a V6 engine and suspension tuning for local conditions. One major difference being the car isn’t built in Australia anymore. One other major difference is we now have social media where every Tom Dick and Harry can voice their “expert opinion”.

A Commodore history lesson on a Commodore forum, slow clap... Here's the real reason VB was accepted and ZB wasn't (as Immortality already said a page or so back), Commodore is Australian made, rear-wheel-drive, with V8 and manual options. The ZB is none of that, despite it being a decent car.

 

[87VLCALAIS]

A Commodore history lesson on a Commodore forum, slow clap... Here's the real reason VB was accepted and ZB wasn't (as Immortality already said a page or so back), Commodore is Australian made, rear-wheel-drive, with V8 and manual options. The ZB is none of that, despite it being a decent car.

Back in 2013 the ZB was flagged as the next Commodore, it always going to be FWD or AWD and no V8 option but still with the possibility of being built in Australia. Thank your state and federal governments for that not getting up.

Tell me, if it had still been built in Australia would that change your thinking?

The manual options or lack there of are purely to do with how Holden chose to spec the ZB, the European versions have the choice of manual. I'm not surprised there's no manual considering how few VE and VF manuals were sold. I asked about a manual VF and was told only available by factory indent and there were likely to have been none imported into NZ.

 

[Brettly-2008]

Back in 2013 the ZB was flagged as the next Commodore, it always going to be FWD or AWD and no V8 option but still with the possibility of being built in Australia. Thank your state and federal governments for that not getting up.

Tell me, if it had still been built in Australia would that change your thinking?

The manual options or lack there of are purely to do with how Holden chose to spec the ZB, the European versions have the choice of manual. I'm not surprised there's no manual considering how few VE and VF manuals were sold. I asked about a manual VF and was told only available by factory indent and there were likely to have been none imported into NZ.

They built Camry in Australia and I never bought those

Speaking of buying, I've never bought the notion that "The ZB was the car Holden would've made". I've actively kept abreast of as much literature on Holden's internal thinking regarding Commodore from VN-VF and it never really wavered about what Commodore was and what Commodore buyers wanted. If Holden continued to have the financial backing from GM that it had with VE, it wouldn't have built a front-wheel-drive Commodore with a 4cyl base engine. No way -especially not given HSV's successful parallel operations, which died as a result of ZB also. Holden had its hands tied with ZB and basically got what it was given and buyers didn't buy enough.