JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[keith reed]

Interesting you think you've made no comment on the Victorian Labor Party, yet you're quite happy to weigh in, as below;


You'll note i didnt call Labor socialist. I alluded, correctly, that Daniel Andrews and his deputy, along with others belong to the Socialist Faction. Something numerous articles, from numerous sources will atest as being true and there has been no defamation claims or denials.




So there can be factions, but there cant be Socialist Factions?

Then why make comment on the Victorian housing issue originally? Where you tried to claim the CFMEU would have no involvement, yet just ignored where i provided proof the CFMEU is involved in government housing projects?

The left faction of the labor party can call themselves what they like but socialist they are not. Socialist faction is a misnomer.

My reference to the state of the parties in Victoria was made in jest. Note the haha.

If I got it wrong about the CFMEU being involved then I am pleased that those workers are finally getting union representation.

 

[keith reed]

Do you think the capitalist class would have given us a 5 day working week and 8 hour work day out of the kindness of their hearts? If so you’ve got no idea how capitalism works.

It’s literally illegal for a publicly traded company to not maximise shareholder value, so if the law said working 7 days a week and. 12 hours a day was the norm then most companies (the publicly traded ones) would have no choice but to comply if it made more shareholder value!

New Zealand is a classic example of what happens when the union movement has been dealt to. They were to blame in many ways. There are still twice as many unions as in Aus.

In 1989 or thereabouts a National government brought in the employment contract act. What it did was make unions voluntary societies. The effect was that the union only made agreements when the boss wanted one. Access to sites was only when the boss wanted it to happen. I am not aware of this happening.

The effect was that all allowances disappeared, people were paid a flat hourly rate. I was picked up at 4.45 am, travelled 130 k, started at 7.30 finished at 5.00 and then travelled home. If there were no accidents on the Auckland motor way I was home by 7.00. 6 days a week. All for $17 for working hours only. I spoke to a friend 15 years later, their hourly rate had risen to $22.

When reference is made to militant unions the employers union is not thought of. They are the most extreme of unions leaving the likes of the CFMEU in the dust. IF they could halve your pay tomorrow they would do it without blinking an eyelid. Had there been the same laws in Aus as in NZ then you would likely have the same result.

Not all unions in Aus are strong. The AWU is an example and they would likely have folded. As it is their future is not secure with many of their members coming over to the CFMEU.

 

[Immortality]

Maritime unions are or were known for been militant.

Most people tend to forget we can thank the union movement for the standard 40 hour working week and we have a public holiday to remember/celebrate that fact. Most employers like to ignore that fact and expect people to work many more hours a week and be happy about it all whilst reducing or removing things like penal rates and working conditions. Hell, the National party removes workers protections and mandatory meal breaks every time they come to power in NZ. Yes, a lot of NZ employers are that terrible that they will take away a workers meal breaks if they could, you should consider yourself lucky you are allowed to have a meal at your desk whilst you work!

NZ has a lot of small unions, most have no teeth and achieve little, even the bigger unions aren't all that much better. All those union currently bargaining and striking in NZ (teachers and doctors) better get their **** sorted in short order because if National win the election in about 3 weeks time there will be no further pay rises for those workings whilst National is in power. The smart ones have settled with multi-year deals so when National is in power their pay rises have already been guaranteed in writing (mostly).

 

[marty351]

The basic tenets of a functional and democratic society are taxes and liberty.
We pay tax to for essential services such as emergency,
medical and educational institutions and necessary infrastructure to enjoy the civil liberties we build for ourselves.

Then comes along that free speech democracy thingy. This is how WE decide to distribute our wealth, and the laws to ensure the fairness and equality within our borders.

You can't have a functional democracy without free speech, progression and conservatism decide, not one or the other.

 

[Sabbath']

The left faction of the labor party can call themselves what they like but socialist they are not. Socialist faction is a misnomer.

So if the faction can call themselves Socialist it's not a misrepresentation on my behalf to refer to them as such yet you just decided, as you did with your CFMEU comments to fire back with misinformaed and unfounded comments?

My reference to the state of the parties in Victoria was made in jest. Note the haha.

So throwaway comments are fine, aslong as you're not serious about it when pushed? But yourself and JD get thoroughly upset when someone calls a spade a spade?

 

[keith reed]

So if the faction can call themselves Socialist it's not a misrepresentation on my behalf to refer to them as such yet you just decided, as you did with your CFMEU comments to fire back with misinformaed and unfounded comments?


So throwaway comments are fine, aslong as you're not serious about it when pushed? But yourself and JD get thoroughly upset when someone calls a spade a spade?

Perhaps if you understood politics better you would understand.

 

[Sabbath']

Perhaps if you understood politics better you would understand.

Again with a non answer to a question.

So far in the last fortnight you've

- failed to answer a single question about the voice you support (blindly) because you "hope" it will all work out.

-had an absolute tear fest when Daniel Andrews was identified as being part of the socialist faction

-somehow an honorary CFMEU stooge, I mean, member....yet are totally oblivious to what they actually do.

Educate yourself on the topics you're talking about and don't just assume and make wild, ignorant statements.

 

[OldBomb]

When I was working in a distribution centre, they would make us finish 10 minutes early because the afternoon break was affecting productivity. It was also expected that you were ready to start work at 5:00am on the dot, ignoring the fact it took 15 minutes to set up. In other words, they wanted us to start 10-15 minutes early without pay.
Couldn't get out of that line of work quick enough. I also think you'll see more people joining unions in the future.

 

[AirStrike]

When I was working in a distribution centre, they would make us finish 10 minutes early because the afternoon break was affecting productivity. It was also expected you were ready to start work at 5:00am on the dot, Ignoring the fact it took 15 minutes to set up.
Couldn't get out of that line of work quick enough. I also think you'll see more people joining unions in the future.

Give and take. Based on previous posts you sound like someone who just gives very little to take a wage each week.

 

[keith reed]

Again with a non answer to a question.

So far in the last fortnight you've

- failed to answer a single question about the voice you support (blindly) because you "hope" it will all work out.

-had an absolute tear fest when Daniel Andrews was identified as being part of the socialist faction

-somehow an honorary CFMEU stooge, I mean, member....yet are totally oblivious to what they actually do.

Educate yourself on the topics you're talking about and don't just assume and make wild, ignorant statements.

Go and have a little lie down. You are only upsetting yourself.