1987 Bathurst winning VL No 10 questions

[LOR-411]

Hi all,

This is my first post and early my research tells me this is the place to be to help me on my new project.

I'm an XU-1 bloke, have been for 25 years, and would like to build a replica (as close as possible) to Brock's 1987 Bathurst winning VL. I need a new project as I'm getting a little sick of XU-1s (sorry about that).

First of all, can I take a very clean six cylinder executive body (A8Q) and use a well used and abused V8 donor VL and swap all the parts over? Basically, are the body shells the same between sixes and V8s or do I have to cut, shut and weld anything to put the V8 stuff into the A8Q body?

I know the Salsbury diff is a straight swap, as is the 304 using the V8 K frame but does the transmission hump need to be modified to take the Borg Warner T5 gearbox?

Also, is there anywhere on the web I can get the specs of this car; wheels, radiator, brake setup, suspension package for example? I've got the AMC mags covering the 1987 No 10 car and Moffat's Rothman's car but need more info on the finer details.

It's early days yet on this project, just doing a bit of fishing for info. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Scrusy]

U can download the Holden app on ur phone and check all specs of every early holden and later commodores.

 

[Darren_L]

sounds like an exciting project, I'm a big fan of the Grp C & Grp A cars
bodies are the same between 6 & 8 cyl cars so no dramas there.
Although officially (as far as I know) VL V8's didn't have a manual option. The Brocks & Walkinshaw were the only VL's to have the manual. The 6cyl manual uses a hydraulic clutch so if you want to use the V8 cable setup, you'll need to fit a VB-VK V8 manual pedal box.

The race car ran a spooled Ford 9 inch with Harrop carrier and internals
Unlike the previous Grp C's the Grp A VL had to retain the panhard rod rear setup as opposed to the Grp C Watts Link
Suspension - Coil over McPherson strut front (with Harrop strut top hats) & adjustable coil over Bilstein rear shock
Engine was a 304 fitted with a Quadrajet carb, factory VL Grp A headers
120L fuel tank, mounted in the standard position, Holley fuel pump
Getrag 5 speed gearbox

355mm front/304mm rear disc rotors, Harrop 4 piston front & ARP 4 piston rear calipers
17x11 Momo magnesium race wheels

Interesting to note they also used a VK style indicator stalk and auto brake pedal

Most of this comes from 'Real Race Cars' edition 2 had a decent article on the cars with some pics of the running gear of the final 05 VL
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150690615519878&set=oa.262519917132670&type=1&theater

 

[LOR-411]

Thanks heaps, Darren. Lots of good info to help get me started.

I may have to go with a Borg Warner T5 box and Salisbury diff to get me started though. The Getrag boxes are a little expensive and do you think the diff would be an easy find or is it a custom build?

I'll have to pick up the Real Race cars mag at some point.

Thanks again, Bruce

 

[Darren_L]

my pleasure Bruce, I'd be interested in following the build - as said I love these things.
The VL road car actually came equipped with a Borg Warner diff. The V8 and turbo 6 diffs are the stronger 4 pinion 28 spline diff. So if you are chasing one, make sure it's out of a V8 or turbo 6.

The diff housing on the race car is basically just a Ford 9 inch housing modified to fit a Commodore. However the centre and carrier was all Harrop (just like the V8 Supercars were before they changed to an IRS diff in COTF format. A Harrop centre would be readily available, but the cost would be insane. So like you said, I'd probably just stick to the standard VL diff at least to begin with. They are a very strong diff and available in a large range of ratios.

Unfortunately the Real Cars mag seems to have been put on indefinite hold. Only 2 or 3 editions were released and then it stopped. I have edition 2 if you can't find a copy. I can scan the relevant pages if you get stuck

 

[LOR-411]

Hi Darren, if you don't mind I'd like to pick your brains from time to time regarding this project with the odd question via this thread.

After looking at diffs on Ebay and the cost of the Borg Warner diffs I found this:

9 Inch LSD Diff Holden in Melbourne, VIC | eBay

Not too bad really, I could use standard 9 inch diff modified to suit a VL and as it would look correct no one would be the wiser. Still a very strong diff and then just need to find the correct pan hard rod set up.

I've had experience with 9 inch diffs in a couple of XU-1s I've owned in the past though the first thing I did back then was to pull them out and sell them. Most of my time has been spent correcting mistakes of the 80s era where shoehorning V8s into LCs and LJs was all the rage. My current XU-1 had a 350 Chev, a Muncie 4 speed and a 9 inch diff all returned to original specs.

Is this the kind of Harrop centre you mentioned?

Harrop Ford 9" GT 35 Spline Spool Magnesium Diff Race Drag V8 Supercar ETC | eBay

I can see the advantages of the lighter Harrop centre, nine inch diffs weigh a ton! A little pricey at the moment, maybe in the future. One more question, what does 'spooled' mean?

I also think the Borg Warner T5 is the way to go with the gearbox. The price of Getrags are ridiculous and from what I understand the T5s are stronger. Do you know the difference between the T5G in the VLs and the T5 from VN onwards? Also, would the cable clutch on the earlier pedal box be suitable?

Finally, I love the clean lines of the VK and VL group a cars. No garbage to get in the way. I was in my late teens when Brock drove No 10 to victory in 1987 so this is why I've decided to create this replica. Childhood memories and a great looking car.

Thanks again, Bruce

 

[Reaper]

Hi all,

This is my first post and early my research tells me this is the place to be to help me on my new project.

I'm an XU-1 bloke, have been for 25 years, and would like to build a replica (as close as possible) to Brock's 1987 Bathurst winning VL. I need a new project as I'm getting a little sick of XU-1s (sorry about that).

First of all, can I take a very clean six cylinder executive body (A8Q) and use a well used and abused V8 donor VL and swap all the parts over? Basically, are the body shells the same between sixes and V8s or do I have to cut, shut and weld anything to put the V8 stuff into the A8Q body?

I know the Salsbury diff is a straight swap, as is the 304 using the V8 K frame but does the transmission hump need to be modified to take the Borg Warner T5 gearbox?

Also, is there anywhere on the web I can get the specs of this car; wheels, radiator, brake setup, suspension package for example? I've got the AMC mags covering the 1987 No 10 car and Moffat's Rothman's car but need more info on the finer details.

It's early days yet on this project, just doing a bit of fishing for info. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks

Well if you get the clapped out mechanicals out of an old VL and plonked them in a 1/2 decent shell you are well on the way to an authentic replica . As for other finder details get in contact with the Bowdens. They own this car and are walking encyclopaedias on that stuff.

 

[Darren_L]

Hi Darren, if you don't mind I'd like to pick your brains from time to time regarding this project with the odd question via this thread.

After looking at diffs on Ebay and the cost of the Borg Warner diffs I found this:

9 Inch LSD Diff Holden in Melbourne, VIC | eBay

Not too bad really, I could use standard 9 inch diff modified to suit a VL and as it would look correct no one would be the wiser. Still a very strong diff and then just need to find the correct pan hard rod set up.

I've had experience with 9 inch diffs in a couple of XU-1s I've owned in the past though the first thing I did back then was to pull them out and sell them. Most of my time has been spent correcting mistakes of the 80s era where shoehorning V8s into LCs and LJs was all the rage. My current XU-1 had a 350 Chev, a Muncie 4 speed and a 9 inch diff all returned to original specs.

Is this the kind of Harrop centre you mentioned?

Harrop Ford 9" GT 35 Spline Spool Magnesium Diff Race Drag V8 Supercar ETC | eBay

I can see the advantages of the lighter Harrop centre, nine inch diffs weigh a ton! A little pricey at the moment, maybe in the future. One more question, what does 'spooled' mean?

I also think the Borg Warner T5 is the way to go with the gearbox. The price of Getrags are ridiculous and from what I understand the T5s are stronger. Do you know the difference between the T5G in the VLs and the T5 from VN onwards? Also, would the cable clutch on the earlier pedal box be suitable?

Finally, I love the clean lines of the VK and VL group a cars. No garbage to get in the way. I was in my late teens when Brock drove No 10 to victory in 1987 so this is why I've decided to create this replica. Childhood memories and a great looking car.

Thanks again, Bruce

I'm all too happy to help if you promise to keep us updated with the build! Lots of pics!

Yep that's the style of Harrop centre they used Bruce. It's actually a bit cheaper than I expected!
A 9inch with Harrop centre is overkill on a street car, but if you are anal about authenticity then that's what you will need to strive towards.

A 'spooled' diff means they use a gadget referred to as a spool, to lock the axles together. It takes the place of the differential centre. In other words no differential action like the current V8 Supercars.

The Getrag they raced with was a different Getrag to your usual garden variety rubbish Getrag found in VS & VT Commodores. I think it was based on a Getrag 265, modified to be a 'dog box' with straight cut gears, capable of handling well in excess of 500hp. The Sierra's used the same box (before they went to Holinger boxes) and they were pumping out around 600hp in full sprint tune. Once again the cost of these boxes (especially a modified version with straight cut gears etc) is prohibitive. So depending on what sort of hp you are planning to make, a T5 will do the job. My VH is good for around 275rwhp, does a bit of track work and no complaints from the T5 which had done over 100,000kms now.

VS-VT 5L Getrag

265 Getrag (Grp A race cars)

So depending on what sort of hp you are planning to make, a T5 will do the job. My VH is good for around 275rwhp, does a bit of track work and no complaints from the T5 which had done over 100,000kms now.
The T5G wasn't much different to the regular T5. The T5G was an American box, whereas the T5's released in our local cars were built in Australia. Some claim they are a bit stronger than the T5, but I've had both boxes apart and they appear to be the same internally. The T5G had a finer spline shaft compared to the T5 and the shifter box is slightly different, the T5G equipped Commodores like the VL Walkinshaw and HDT VL Grp A had a 'gooseneck' style shifter compared to the straight shifter on the VN onward.

Cable clutch pedal box is fairly much a straight fit from a VB-VK. I think you may just have to modify the cable outlet hole in the firewall a bit. We did the conversion on a mates VL many years ago, I just can't remember all the details. But there wasn't much to it. And believe it or not, the race car still ran the standard cable setup.

And agreed, this was a golden era for Australian motorsport, I really lost a lot of passion for the sport once Grp A was phased out - VN Grp A was the last. I started watching around the VH days - 1982 - hence my love of the VH.... In 1987 I would have been about 16 years old, so I'm guessing I'm a similar age to yourself.

The Bertie Street forum is also a very good resource for info on these cars. John Harvey posts on the forum every often, and there is at least one of Brocks HDT mechanics who also puts up some really interesting stories from the day. Lots of knowledgeable people there. I'm sure they'd be interested in your project and could provide you with heaps of info