JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Jesterarts]

I just find it hilarious that one of the things they have "stopped", is their cooperation on the boat people matter. So, business as usual on that subject given their efforts to cooperate so far have been close to zero.

Also, does this mean we are going to "review" our aid policy for Indonesia and also spot rescuing boats that are in their waters?

 

[Grennan]

To be fair on Labor, I dont think Liberals wouldve done much differently in this regard. Its not like Liberals were going to stop spying.

The boat people issue certainly would of been different as the pacific solution just wouldve stayed intact, but thats probably just a "Ohh, weve got nothing else to cry about...BOAT PEOPLE YES BOAT PEOPLE!"

Live exports have always been an issue.

I would like to know what Indonesia thinks it has over us though. Whats the threat? Am I missing something? They really dont appear to do ANYTHING to help with boat people. ####, boat people sink their boats within sight of the Indonesian coast and we still have to rescue them. Ohhh shared military action? Pfft. Oh no some idiots who got caught with drugs get shot? Good riddance you can have them.

I dont get it, do they think that is comparable to all the aid we give them?

 

[Calaber]

To be fair on Labor, I dont think Liberals wouldve done much differently in this regard. Its not like Liberals were going to stop spying.

The boat people issue certainly would of been different as the pacific solution just wouldve stayed intact, but thats probably just a "Ohh, weve got nothing else to cry about...BOAT PEOPLE YES BOAT PEOPLE!"

Live exports have always been an issue.

I would like to know what Indonesia thinks it has over us though. Whats the threat? Am I missing something? They really dont appear to do ANYTHING to help with boat people. ####, boat people sink their boats within sight of the Indonesian coast and we still have to rescue them. Ohhh shared military action? Pfft. Oh no some idiots who got caught with drugs get shot? Good riddance you can have them.

I dont get it, do they think that is comparable to all the aid we give them?

Gren

I suspect that the amount of aid we give them matters more to us than it does to them. It's around 500 million this year - a big amount to Australians, but what proportion of the total foreign aid that Indonesia receives from all countries does that amount represent? The Aceh tsunami was different - Howard pledged 1 billion dollars on that occasion - the largest amount of any country, I think. That's when Indonesia's attitude to us really starts to bite. "We'll take all you want to give us - just don't expect that we can or will ever be able to do the same for you. (or that we'll be particularly grateful, either)."

Graham Richardson last night had an interesting commentary on this issue. He pointed out that many Indonesians don't particularly like Australia or its citizens and that there are many of them who could happily kill off Australians just because we are who we are. It's the largest Muslim nation on earth in terms of population, so they are hardly likely to side with us on a religious basis. (We ARE infidels, after all.) Richo also pointed out that spying goes on all the time and will continue to do so. He said that Abbott can't give an unequivocal guarantee to Indonesia that it won't happen again. Abbot pointed out in Parliament this week that Indonesia did the same thing to us during the East Timor issue and nobody (ie the Australian Government at the time) over-reacted to that incident, so similar actions should follow this time 'round.

I agree with Richo and other commentators that domestic issues in Indonesia and the impending general election there next year are influencing their reactions at present. A bit of chest thumping and looking tough to enhance SBY's reputation. In the meantime, our diplomatic relations suffer.

 

[MasterOfReality]

Indonesia, ugh, one of the most corrupt and dirtiest countries on the planet getting all righteous about spying and SBY's latest: violation of human rights. Yeah like those farkers can talk.

SBY is heading into an election and trying not to 'loose face', that's why he is hammering this so hard.

I think Abbott is handling this ok - about time an Australian leader showed some spine and stopped grovelling. And its good to see Shorten is supporting Abbott on this as well.

 

[Reaper]

Indonesia, ugh, one of the most corrupt and dirtiest countries on the planet getting all righteous about spying and SBY's latest: violation of human rights. Yeah like those farkers can talk.

SBY is heading into an election and trying not to 'loose face', that's why he is hammering this so hard.

I think Abbott is handling this ok - about time an Australian leader showed some spine and stopped grovelling. And its good to see Shorten is supporting Abbott on this as well.

Really??? I haven't seen much support although am happy to be corrected (really want to be corrected on this one).

Shorten is out of line on response to Jakarta spy row

It'd be nice if the greens got their heads out of their arses and backed Australia's interests on this one too. Do they really think that the PM will detail who we are spying on in Parliarment to satisfy their political point??? I have no connection to any government but common sense says that given the opportunity *any* government would at the very least monitor any high level communication of any other government (friend or foe) to see if what they say via diplomatic channels is consistent with with what they say behind closed doors. This can be a good and a bad thing depending on the situation. Good to see Chris Bowen has a relatively clear head on the situation and agrees that when it comes to operations behind national security it's "no comment" - neither confirm or deny.

Adam Bandt and Chris Bowen on Indonesia spying revelations

 

[MasterOfReality]

Really??? I haven't seen much support although am happy to be corrected (really want to be corrected on this one).

Shorten is out of line on response to Jakarta spy row

Hmm I did hear on the news last night that Shorten sided with Abbott.

Maybe I misheard. Might have been too good to be true!

Edit: this is what I heard, now on ABC website.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-...indonesia-freezes-cooperation-with-au/5106896

 

[Reaper]

Hmm I did hear on the news last night that Shorten sided with Abbott.

Maybe I misheard. Might have been too good to be true!

Edit: this is what I heard, now on ABC website.

Spy row: No sign of apology from Tony Abbott as Indonesia freezes cooperation with Australia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Sounds like he is having an each way bet.

 

[Jesterarts]

I have to admit, looking over the last few comments and the news papers, I am impressed how this is being handled at a local level. Significantly less **** slinging than I would expect from all political parties involved and also the followers of each of those parties.

It seems that even those of a left inclination are seeing that enough it enough in terms of how Indonesia behaves and are very reserved in their criticism of Abbott.

That seems to be the case based on my observations anyway.

 

[Calaber]

Shorten is caught between a rock and a hard place on this matter. He has absolutely NO right to condemn Abbott for the course of action he is taking - after all, it's yet another Labor stuff-up. That means the only course he can take is to support the Government, which is what he has said will happen.

Of course, other idiots have different views. Christine Milne and Bob Carr have both said Abbott should apologise. Well, they would, wouldn't they? It was during their term of government that this occurred, but if you can get the opposite side to say sorry for you, you're home free. Milne is a blight on Aussie politics. She won't bend on any policy, no matter how unpopular it is with the electorate. She absolutely gloated when the knot was tied between Gillard and Brown, saying "Now we are in power....". She must hate being on the losing side now.


And Carr? He was the start of the rot that affected NSW Labor so badly. A failed Premier and a useless Federal polly. Piss off quickly Bob and do us all a favour.

 

[MasterOfReality]

Milne looks like the type of woman who would only smile when she is eating lemons.

Must be frustrated to the max.