JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[Reaper]

Do you believe a word those pos say Its proven they will say and do anything to expliot money from our government. Tell them to f*ckoff they have stolen enough from Australia .

The problem is there are currently *very* few models on the market which achieve this new standard. To expect auto makers to change that much within such a short time is just unrealistic. For many, Australia is a bit player at best. Car manufacturers/importers will just leave our market.

Exactly. They are just pissed that their gravy train of highly profitable lard arse SUVs is going to be reigned in. Ford basically doesn’t sell anything else in Australia except the Raptor and the Everest.

Maybe because people want to buy them? It's a 2 sided equation.

A lot of those vehicles are only bought because of the tax dodges implicit in them. My work does this exact thing for its work vehicles. All our reps vehicles are Everests or Raptors with a single occupant in them when in ye olden days we used to run Ford Falcons or Holden Commodores.

Not really. In the past maybe but not so much now. There are fuktons of cheaper alternatives and from memory import duties on 4x4/commercial is 5% whilst other vehicles are 10%. LCT applies to a large % of 'wagon' type 4x4 these days and an increasing amount of your shitter dual cabs. In times past the FBT discounts for dual cabs was massive but that is long past and now they are treated more or less like any other vehicle. Commercial still doesn't attract FBT but utes have to have min 1000kg payload to qualify. Most on the market fall short, particularly the higher spec models.

It's a couple of years old now but towards the bottom of this link is a list of which dial cabs have what payload:

Best Dual-Cab 4x4 Ute 2022: Towing and payload - carsales.com.au

Load carrying and towing are key factors for most ute buyers, but not all 4x4 dual-cabs are created equal

www.carsales.com.au

“The temporary full expensing policy allows the purchase of new business assets, including motor vehicles, to be claimed as an immediate and full one-off tax deductible expense. This is capped at about $60,000 for passenger vehicles, but there is no limit to the deduction for vehicles that can carry a one-tonne payload.

As above - there are surprisingly few dual cabs that fall into the >1T category. The old 'company car' has fallen off a cliff over the last decade or so. Novated leases combined with a car allowance has largely replaced them. Car allowances are taxed at whatever marginal rate the taxpayer is on but the business portion of car usage expenses can be claimed. There are a couple of methods for working this out. This is available to anybody using their car for business (ATO definition applies)

The other incentive, the loss carry back tax offset, works together with the temporary full expensing policy, and means if the purchase of a new vehicle creates a net loss for a business then the loss can be applied to previous years’ profits to reduce the tax already paid on previous profits – resulting in a cash refund or reduced tax liability.

Additionally, the Grattan Institute has raised concerns that two other tax perks – the instant asset write-off scheme and fringe benefits tax – offer greater concessions for vehicles that can carry more than one tonne.”


https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-13bn-extra-at-the-pump-per-year-report-finds

As above - it's a surprisingly short list.

Are we even paying any subsidies anymore with no local manufacturing?

I don't think so.

The issue is you don’t have many options now days outside of SUv’s and dual cabs.
My wife wants a new car, has a FGX atm and wants similar, unless you want to spend big money on a high end euro there are basically no large 4 door sedans with decent power like we all used to drive.

Sadly we bought less and less of them from the mid 2000's onwards.

Not directly to the manufacturers but the tax system provides bigger tax concessions on SUVs and utes.

As above - they are minimal these days for the vast bulk on the road

Anyone here live in the Dunkley electorate? I think Labor will easily win the by-election, but just wondering if Dutton's fear mongering & alliance with the far right is having any sort of impact on voting intentions?

Yeah me. Sick to death of all the adds on YouTube et-al we have had for weeks. As for 'far right' - well yeah I'll let that speak for itself. On nearly every policy the LNP in Australia are actually more left than the US Democrats. I find it amusing when the Australian LNP are characterised as far right. It's just horse **** spewing out of the mouth of people with an alternate agenda.

Keep in mind, the ‘land tax’ in Victoria is (mostly?) only levied on commercial, investment, and holiday properties. The principle place of residence (ppor) isn’t subject to land tax here (as it is taxed via ‘stamp duty’ when purchased).

Other states in Australia have their own systems.

I have been saying it for quite some time now - land tax should be abolished for any property subject to a long term domestic lease. What constitutes long term is open for debate and all savings should be passed thru via lower rent to the tenant. This isn't overly difficult to enforce via the ACCC or have the relevant state revenue office rebate it direct to the tenant to make sure there isn't any shittery taking place.

I vaguely recall (might be remembering incorrectly though) that the GST was supposed to replace some of those economically inefficient stamp duties, but the states just kept the stamp duties and the GST on top, and they are mostly still going broke.

Yes but most (all?) state governments reneged to varying extents.

 

[Reaper]

You are being polite saying laughable...

Yes it was surposed to simplify tax

It is. Very simple actually. The previous wholesale sales tax was a minefield and a half. At one stage I was selling manufactured steel components that could have a lot of uses. If it was used for use 'A' then it had one tax rate, use 'B' had another and use 'C' had none at all. I honestly can't remember the rates but they were up around the low 20% range. There were a heap of other rates deepening on the item use.

Now one of the most hilarious things I found was Paul Keating, after torpedoing John Hewson's mk 1 GST, even after previously saying it was a direction we should go. Then once re-elected he immediately raised the WST rate. This is a very brief table of WST rates at various times in Aus:

A brief history of Australia's tax system | Treasury.gov.au

 Sam Reinhardt and Lee Steel1 This paper was presented to the 22nd APEC Finance Ministers’ Technical Working Group Meeting in Khanh Hoa, Vietnam, on 15June2006. It provides an overview of Australian taxation history, identifying trends and discussing key reforms to Australia’s tax system at...

treasury.gov.au

HECS, the gov education loan scheme charged on University students, was introduced by Labor. At the beginning they charged around $125 per unit. When I did my undergrad (early 90's) it was $250/unit. My first post grad cost $1250/unit, while the Masters was $3,500 per unit. Looking at the same course now - $31,000 a year, over 2 years.

You want to talk about being bent over, try studying. This is money you will never get back through an appreciating asset.

It has to be paid by somebody. The thought is you will earn a better income with improved education and the investment is in your most important asset - YOU!

 

[J_D 2.0]

It has to be paid by somebody. The thought is you will earn a better income with improved education and the investment is in your most important asset - YOU!

Thats all well and good but the commoditisation of education results in everyone having a degree who will pay for one and not the best and brightest getting a degree.

Just look at the US where everyone was basically told they needed a degree to get anywhere and now that degree gets them a job at MacDonalds.

https://www.businessinsider.com/half-new-us-graduates-work-high-school-level-jobs-2024-2

 

[Reaper]

Right from the start the tax on petrol remained with gst on top. In NZ gst was brought in by Labour and in Australia by the LNP. Naturally both opposition party's complained. In NZ the National party called it the greedy socialist tax. However they didn't repeal it and in time increased it. Labor went quiet on their opposition once elected in Australia. To be fair it might have been too hard to dismantle.

Yes and no. To change the rate of the GST the Federal Government has to pass the change thru both houses of parliament and also have unanimous support of the states. In theory it's easy but in practice it just won't happen. But..... That is within the act which can be changed by vote of the federal government. Once again, sounds easy but political suicide for any government that would try it. I don't see it happening outside very unusual and unprecedented circumstances.

The other 'problem' is what do you replace the revenue with? The entire take of the GST funds the states and not a single $ goes to Fedgovco.

I recall one of the catch phrases was ‘Goodbye Seven Taxes and charges’ (look for the acronym on the first three words == GST).

One of the big pushes was it’d be replacing a 30% wholesale tax (what the retailer paid for the item) with a 10% retail tax (what the purchaser pays for the item). I suspect many people assumed that they’d be taxed less. But I used to do a lot of ‘tax free‘ purchasing, and many suppliers were very very guarded on the tax-component (as it allows one to work out their wholesale price). I used to encounter x10 mark-ups between wholesale and retail prices, so the GST was actually more than then previous wholesale taxes.

WST was a mess and a half. I was in my late 20's during the change and it's fair, there were **many** items that became a **** ton cheaper there after. The ACCC was all over making sure this happened. Of course there were many other items/services that were previously outside the WST net which went up in price. I can't remember exactly but from memory CPI at the time was virtually un changed or briefly had a very minor spike.

 

[Reaper]

Thats all well and good but the commoditisation of education results in everyone having a degree who will pay for one and not the best and brightest getting a degree.

Just look at the US where everyone was basically told they needed a degree to get anywhere and now that degree gets them a job at MacDonalds.

https://www.businessinsider.com/half-new-us-graduates-work-high-school-level-jobs-2024-2

We could return to the old Whitlam era of free uni education but the catch there was very few places being available (per capita) and thus higher education being simply not available to anybody but the highest achievers academically at high school or having rich parents. Not sure that's good either. Uni education has been steadily growing (per capita) ever since HECS was introduced even though the costs are way higher overall

 

[the_boozer]

The problem is there are currently *very* few models on the market which achieve this new standard. To expect auto makers to change that much within such a short time is just unrealistic. For many, Australia is a bit player at best. Car manufacturers/importers will just leave our market.

Which set of fags signed us up to these unrealistic unachievable standards Is the problem its not like any Aussie is going to do anything about it is it?A big thank you to the lot of you.

 

[Reaper]

Which set of fags signed us up to these unrealistic unachievable standards Is the problem its not like any Aussie is going to do anything about it is it?A big thank you to the lot of you.

Our PM Airbus Albo + the climate minister Casanova Bowen. The stupid thing is that it will actually have exactly the opposite of the desired effect as the new cars people often need (eg trades in utes etc) will be unobtainably expensive and thus older, higher polluting vehicles will stay on the road far longer than they otherwise would. Anybody who has visited any pacific island will see the standard of vehicles over there and see my point.

Once again, this is on the Australian public. Every one of you fukers that voted for these fkers - this is on you! No doubt the previous government had it's problems but they never tried any of this dumbshittery.

 

[the_boozer]

Anybody who has visited any pacific island will see the standard of vehicles over there

They buy older shitheaps and drive them until they fall apart. I spent a bit of time Thursday Island once. As they drive bugger all distance around most Islands does it matter?

 

[J_D 2.0]

Once again, this is on the Australian public. Every one of you fukers that voted for these fkers - this is on you! No doubt the previous government had its problems but they never tried any of this dumbshittery.

The previous government did absolutely nothing but graft and corruption, oh and punching down at the less fortunate (robodebt to squeeze pennies from a stone while handing away jobkeeper dollars to big business), so there’s that.

Labor are just as beholden to big business as the LNP are and are whacking us over the head with vehicle emissions targets because basically everyone who wants something done about global warming is stupid enough to believe that vehicles are a major part of the problem.

Labor pleases the “greenies” as it were by having vehicle emissions standards while still waiving through new coal mines and providing multi billion dollar subsidies for them because people have recency bias. They see cars every day so believe they are a major problem.

The transport sector only makes up 21% of emissions and half of that is bulk freight transport (trucks, trains, etc) so light vehicles are only around 10% of the problem yet the government is hitting them with the ban hammer.

No other sector has been hit with the ban hammer as that would affect corporate donors! Fugitive emissions (coal mines farting) makes up the same percentage of emissions as light vehicle transport yet there’s no ban on new coal mines.


Energy production is the largest contributor to Australia's carbon emissions. This is followed by transport, agriculture, and industrial processes. Specifically:

• energy (burning fossil fuels to produce electricity) contributed 32.6 per cent of the total emissions
• stationary energy (including manufacturing, mining, residential and commercial fuel use) 22.3 per cent
• transport 21.1 per cent
• agriculture 17.7 per cent
• fugitive emissions 10.2 per cent
• industrial processes 7 per cent
• waste 2.9 per cent.

https://www.csiro.au/en/research/en...imate-change/Climate-change-QA/Sources-of-CO2

 

[keith reed]

Yes and no. To change the rate of the GST the Federal Government has to pass the change thru both houses of parliament and also have unanimous support of the states. In theory it's easy but in practice it just won't happen. But..... That is within the act which can be changed by vote of the federal government. Once again, sounds easy but political suicide for any government that would try it. I don't see it happening outside very unusual and unprecedented circumstances.

The other 'problem' is what do you replace the revenue with? The entire take of the GST funds the states and not a single $ goes to Fedgovco.



WST was a mess and a half. I was in my late 20's during the change and it's fair, there were **many** items that became a **** ton cheaper there after. The ACCC was all over making sure this happened. Of course there were many other items/services that were previously outside the WST net which went up in price. I can't remember exactly but from memory CPI at the time was virtually un changed or briefly had a very minor spike.

I should have been clearer. My reference to the rise in gst was NZ where there have been 2 rises. 10 to 12.5 to 15. Only one level of parliament there.