Modern chinese tyres?

[crew_man]

people carry on about china being **** i think you want to have a look at where your iphone in made

The point was made earlier that we are not talking about products that are just made in China - we are talking about Chinese brands, with Chinese standards, Chinese R&D etc.

For example, almost all car manufacturers have a plant(s) in China and source a lot of product in China but due to the OEM's quality & control and sourcing processes it doesn't matter what country they come from.

But I still wouldn't buy a Haval, Great Wall etc. just yet as they simply don't have the other 90% of the expertise to produce a quality product.

The manufacturing is just one part of a massive process to bring a product to market and unfortunately many Chinese companies don't have anywhere near the competency to design, engineer, build, market and sell complex products.

It's for this reason that I prefer to buy brand-name products over cheaply made Chinese products.

 

[vc commodore]

Incorrect, I worked in purchasing at GMH and now at another company in the automotive market and I know exactly how price corresponds with quality.
.

Well, you say incorrect and you used to purchase for GMH.....Here's a classic example buddy....GMH run Bridgestones and Continental which are pricey and they also run Kumho, which are a mid range priced tyre......

For such a large company, which is world wide, why would they put a mid range priced tyre as OE fitament when pricer tyres are available and price dictates quality in your opinion?

 

[crew_man]

Well, you say incorrect and you used to purchase for GMH.....Here's a classic example buddy....GMH run Bridgestones and Continental which are pricey and they also run Kumho, which are a mid range priced tyre......

For such a large company, which is world wide, why would they put a mid range priced tyre as OE fitament when pricer tyres are available and price dictates quality in your opinion?

Perhaps you should have quoted your original post in your response, as you clearly said 'Pricing of a tyre has diddly squat to do with quality.....' . Pricing and quality correlate directly, especially when we are talking about companies that include large amounts of R&D, engineering, research, QC etc. in their pricing. At no point did I say that you ONLY get quality when you buy the absolute top of the line product (like you have insinuated), I merely stated that I know how costs are built into products.

Perhaps you should also re-read your response in the context of this thread. We are not comparing mid-priced brand name tyres to high-priced brand name tyres that are designed to fit completely different roles (a Cruze does not need the same tyre as an SSV Redline), we are comparing cheaper Chinese brand tyres with the more commonly known brand name tyres.

If you read my earlier response on this page I also noted that manufacturing is only a small part of bringing a product to market - the other important parts are research, design, engineering, Quality Control, marketing, logistics etc.. If a company skimps on these to offer a cheaper product it can ultimately result in an inferior product. Most Chinese companies don't have these other important factors nailed just yet, which is why I wouldn't buy a Haval or Greatwall.

 

[Crumbs]

just going to add, and I haven't read all the posts yet.
a
my Ute came with cheap Chinese tyres on stock rims. Wet was ok, but wet and an the M1 was bloody freaky I hit some water running across the road after a car had already passed through the water around 2-3 seconds ahead of me, and the damn thing started to aquaplane. I drive the M1 atleast once a week and in my previous car using Bridgestone (Subaru, only option for tyres that I have found and happy with) I have driven in worse rain and never had that problem.

So no cheapy Chinese brand tyres that I've never heard of before for me, if that had happened to the mrs I'm sure she would have **** herself more

 

[vc commodore]

Perhaps you should have quoted your original post in your response, as you clearly said 'Pricing of a tyre has diddly squat to do with quality.....' . Pricing and quality correlate directly, especially when we are talking about companies that include large amounts of R&D, engineering, research, QC etc. in their pricing. At no point did I say that you ONLY get quality when you buy the absolute top of the line product (like you have insinuated), I merely stated that I know how costs are built into products.

Perhaps you should also re-read your response in the context of this thread. We are not comparing mid-priced brand name tyres to high-priced brand name tyres that are designed to fit completely different roles (a Cruze does not need the same tyre as an SSV Redline), we are comparing cheaper Chinese brand tyres with the more commonly known brand name tyres.

If you read my earlier response on this page I also noted that manufacturing is only a small part of bringing a product to market - the other important parts are research, design, engineering, Quality Control, marketing, logistics etc.. If a company skimps on these to offer a cheaper product it can ultimately result in an inferior product. Most Chinese companies don't have these other important factors nailed just yet, which is why I wouldn't buy a Haval or Greatwall.

You're the one insinuating pricing directly effects quality in this area, where I can assure you, that's not the case......

I have used the Bridgestone, Continental, Kumho as an example.....And going with this example, there are Kumhos available to suit a Commodore, used in a spirited fashion, which cost less than a Bridgestone/Contential equivelant.....But using your theory, they aren't good enough, due to costing of the product.

I'm fully aware of development costs being incorporated into a tyre pricing, but just because one brand costs upwards of $50 more than another brand, doesn't automatically mean the higher priced tyre is the better quality tyre

Back when the BA FPV was released, I was working for a Dunlop dealer, doing custom fleet cars.....This meant, worn out tyres had to be replaced with the same brand tyres. These cars were fitted with top of the line Dunlop sp3000's, which was then replaced with the sp 9000......Not cheap tyres by any means (they were the top of the line Dunlops).....EVERY and I mean every owner of these cars wanted to replace these crappy tyres, with something better, but because of stupid custom fleet rules, it couldn't be done. So here is another example of pricing has nothing to do quality

 

[crew_man]

You're the one insinuating pricing directly effects quality in this area, where I can assure you, that's not the case......

I have used the Bridgestone, Continental, Kumho as an example.....And going with this example, there are Kumhos available to suit a Commodore, used in a spirited fashion, which cost less than a Bridgestone/Contential equivelant.....But using your theory, they aren't good enough, due to costing of the product.

I'm fully aware of development costs being incorporated into a tyre pricing, but just because one brand costs upwards of $50 more than another brand, doesn't automatically mean the higher priced tyre is the better quality tyre

I'm not sure if you have read the full thread, at no point did I say that products are only good if they cost a fortune - all I have done is provide examples as to why a brand name product that costs more is likely to be a superior product to a cheaper Chinese product from a Chinese brand using Chinese standards, yet for some reason you are comparing a mid-price brand name product with a high-price brand name product and using that to support your argument in a thread about Chinese branded tyres, which does not make sense.

Again, like myself and others said previously, any tyre will get you to the shops and back in 90% of cases - it's the other 10% of cases where a quality tyre makes the difference between life and death (emergency braking etc.) and this is where cheaper tyres, especially untested Chinese brand tyres will likely fail to perform. That 10% also includes performance driving, which is why you see OEM's putting mid-priced and high-priced tyres on their vehicles (it all comes down to vehicle, a performance vehicle will likely come with a performance tyre) - note that you don't see these companies putting Chinese brand tyres on their vehicles. Maybe they should take a leaf out of your book and replace the tyres that they put onto their cars with the cheapest Chinese stuff that they can find? It would save them a fortune!

Or perhaps they looked at doing that and realised how silly it was.....

 

[vc commodore]

I'm not sure if you have read the full thread, at no point did I say that products are only good if they cost a fortune - all I have done is provide examples as to why a brand name product that costs more is likely to be a superior product to a cheaper Chinese product from a Chinese brand using Chinese standards, yet for some reason you are comparing a mid-price brand name product with a high-price brand name product and using that to support your argument in a thread about Chinese branded tyres, which does not make sense.

Again, like myself and others said previously, any tyre will get you to the shops and back in 90% of cases - it's the other 10% of cases where a quality tyre makes the difference between life and death (emergency braking etc.) and this is where cheaper tyres, especially untested Chinese brand tyres will likely fail to perform. That 10% also includes performance driving, which is why you see OEM's putting mid-priced and high-priced tyres on their vehicles (it all comes down to vehicle, a performance vehicle will likely come with a performance tyre) - note that you don't see these companies putting Chinese brand tyres on their vehicles. Maybe they should take a leaf out of your book and replace the tyres that they put onto their cars with the cheapest Chinese stuff that they can find? It would save them a fortune!

Or perhaps they looked at doing that and realised how silly it was.....

I know R&D costs are factored into tyre pricing, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are getting what you expect from the inflated price, especially when it comes down to performance vehicles, like you seem to be banging on about.

The Falcon situation I mentioned is a classic example.....Those R&D done for the tyres fitted to the performance range Falcons was done via V8 super taxis and the VW series.....(they were VW running gear in an open wheeler)....Yet the owners of these performance Falcons were so unhappy with the performance of these tyres, especially for the pricing.

And yes I'm providing examples of how costing doesn't always reflect on quality....BTW, these performance Dunlops were made in Japan

 

[crew_man]

I know R&D costs are factored into tyre pricing, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are getting what you expect from the inflated price, especially when it comes down to performance vehicles, like you seem to be banging on about.

The Falcon situation I mentioned is a classic example.....Those R&D done for the tyres fitted to the performance range Falcons was done via V8 super taxis and the VW series.....(they were VW running gear in an open wheeler)....Yet the owners of these performance Falcons were so unhappy with the performance of these tyres, especially for the pricing.

And yes I'm providing examples of how costing doesn't always reflect on quality....BTW, these performance Dunlops were made in Japan

I think that you are confusing personal taste with quality.

Tyres are designed to have certain characteristics and people have their own personal tastes when it comes to the characteristics that they favour. The example that you provided has far more to do with the personal tastes of the drivers (and possibly incorrect tyre selection by the OEM for the particular vehicle, which is something that I touched on earlier - using the right tyre for the right vehicle) than the quality of the tyres because from the quick google search that I just performed it seems that there are plenty of people that rate those tyres very highly.

I personally have my own opinions on tyres, which is why I will put certain tyres on my motorbikes and will not even look at others. To put my point into another context, every tyre will work on my motorbike when it comes to riding in a straight line but as soon as I start do do some heavy braking and lean the bike over I need and want the best possible tyre connecting me to the road, as I have seen time and time again (with both cars and bikes) that the cheaper tyres simply cannot handle it.

Now it seems to me that you are referring to ones ability to utilise the additional quality and characteristics that you receive from a more expensive product, which is true but it is not the point of this thread, nor does it have anything to do with what I have been saying. The point of this thread (and something that you keep failing to acknowledge) is to identify whether cheaper Chinese branded products are a suitable replacement for well established, more expensive brand name products. Unless you have a particular example from your own first hand experience, perhaps this thread isn't for you? Simply saying that 'expensive isn't always better' doesn't assist with anything.

 

[vc commodore]

I think that you are confusing personal taste with quality.

Tyres are designed to have certain characteristics and people have their own personal tastes when it comes to the characteristics that they favour. The example that you provided has far more to do with the personal tastes of the drivers (and possibly incorrect tyre selection by the OEM for the particular vehicle, which is something that I touched on earlier - using the right tyre for the right vehicle) than the quality of the tyres because from the quick google search that I just performed it seems that there are plenty of people that rate those tyres very highly.

I personally have my own opinions on tyres, which is why I will put certain tyres on my motorbikes and will not even look at others. To put my point into another context, every tyre will work on my motorbike when it comes to riding in a straight line but as soon as I start do do some heavy braking and lean the bike over I need and want the best possible tyre connecting me to the road, as I have seen time and time again (with both cars and bikes) that the cheaper tyres simply cannot handle it.

Now it seems to me that you are referring to ones ability to utilise the additional quality and characteristics that you receive from a more expensive product, which is true but it is not the point of this thread, nor does it have anything to do with what I have been saying. The point of this thread (and something that you keep failing to acknowledge) is to identify whether cheaper Chinese branded products are a suitable replacement for well established, more expensive brand name products. Unless you have a particular example from your own first hand experience, perhaps this thread isn't for you? Simply saying that 'expensive isn't always better' doesn't assist with anything.

I'm not using my personal taste get in the way of this thread......I'm using a few years of experience with the general public come through. And none of the google stuff either.

And yes, some cheaper chinese branded products are better than well established expensive branded products in this area (which I touched on too).

So is my input relevant to this thread....According to you, not, as you're involved in the purchasing of products through various companies you have been employed by, where as I'm the poor idiot dealing with every day people giving me their feedback on what they want and what they expect from the product and the associated complaints that go with it.