Question about a VS fuel pump?

[scrano]

Hi guys, I got a call from my sister today, that her VS Calais wasn't starting, and it started sputtering and cut out last night, and her and her partner basically flattened the battery this morning, when they were trying to find out what was wrong, and I asked on the phone this morning whether the pump was coming on, when the ignition was turned on, which they said it was, but after changing the plugs, leads, fuel filter, checking the fuel pump fuse, and switching the relays around too see if there was a bad one somewhere, we were left with the same problem. I then decided too hop under the car myself and double check that the pump was actually coming on, and pressurizing the fuel line for myself, and sure enough, it was as dead as a door nail, and not making any noise at all.

I just wanted too check and make sure, that I'm right in guessing that it's the fuel pump, or if there's anything else that I should check before I replace the pump?

I'd appreciate any assistance or advice about this guys.

Thanks in advance

 

[hako]

It will only make a noise when the ignition is turned to START .....and then it will run for about 1 or 2 seconds. If you then turn ign off and then turn back to START, the pump will not prime....you need to wait a few minutes to hear it prime again.
Another quick method is to loosen the fuel filter connections....if there is pressure in the line it will spray from the connection....take all precautions if you do this!!!
You should also run a fault code check: https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/checking-error-codes-vr-vs-revised.22307

 

[Jxfwsf]

It will also make noise while the engine is cranking (although maybe hard to hear over the noise).

If this is only new and there have been no previous indication of the pump on it's way out then a nice simple easy trick is to give the bottom of the tank (roughly in the middle) a good whack with the palm of your hand and see if the pump starts working again.

now the reason for fuel pump failure is age, general wear and tear, below is an image of what goes wrong, the copper wears out where the brushes contact (the brushes wear down quicker) and giving it a whack can cause the components to contact again and start working (probably not for long though)


the massive groove in the copper should not be there, it should be a flat surface.


on rarer occasions i've even found pumps that have gotten so hot the plastic has melted around the brushes and deformed (so far only the low pressure vl/vn pumps with 2 fuel pumps).. pure chance i'm guessing that it didn't ignite the fuel vapour in the tank



after seeing all this, i only use good quality pumps and replace them every few years as preventative maintenance on my own cars.

 

[scrano]

Thanks guys, yeah I checked the error codes today, to see what had been logged, and the only error that had been logged was 64 (LHS O2 Sensor Lean), so I took it out and give it a clean, and disconnected the battery, and put the sensor back in, so I can check whether it just was partly stuffed, or completely stuffed, so I'll check it again, once the car is running again, and it's warm enough, that the sensors have kicked in, and either logged a fault again, or corrected the issue.

As far as I know, there was no prior warning that the pump was on the way out, so I'll try giving the tank a whack, and see whether that gets it started temporarily.

When we changed the fuel filter today, there was no pressure in the fuel line, but it was basically the last thing that I ended up doing, and I got my sisters partner too turn the key, to the start position, too see if I could hear the pump pressurize/prime, and there was not a noise at all, so I'm pretty sure that the pumps stuffed.

I even did a side by side comparison, with my VX, so we could compare the sound of the pump, with her VS, and again, you could hear my pump, but nothing on her car.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info and replies

 

[hako]

A final test if the fuel pump is OK is to supply power direct to the pump and see if it runs - to do this you locate the cables behind the rear seat back inside the boot....find the violet cable and apply +12V to it and if the pump is OK it should run.....if not then it's the pump that's gone.

 

[scrano]

Thanks Hako, I'll give that a try tomorrow, and see how it goes. I should've added earlier, that we even went to the trouble of removing a plug from each of the 3 coil packs, and turning it over, just too make sure that it wasn't 1 of the coil packs, or the module that they sit on, that had possibly died, but there seemed too be spark on all the coil packs, which makes me think more and more that it's the fuel pump.

I can't really think of all that much more that it could be, but I'm open too suggestions, so if anyone's got any suggestions about different things too test, or try, then please say so, cause at this point, the only thing that I can think of, is that it's gotta be the pump, or maybe injectors? But I figure out why, if it was an injector problem, would it just be turning over, and not starting, or running rough, or something like that??

 

[cattz]

You could always use a piece of wire and bridge the 2 LARGE terminals of the relay.
From memory, faulty fuel pumps don't log a code anyway.

 

[Jxfwsf]

<snip> the only thing that I can think of, is that it's gotta be the pump, or maybe injectors? But I figure out why, if it was an injector problem, would it just be turning over, and not starting, or running rough, or something like that??

very odd for 6 injectors to go at once, 1 or 2 i can imagine and then you'd only notice it running rough and lacking power

if there was a problem with the injector supply voltage it would log an error code
Code 57 - Injector Power supply voltage variation

You could always use a piece of wire and bridge the 2 LARGE terminals of the relay.
From memory, faulty fuel pumps don't log a code anyway.

correct no fault codes will be logged from a fuel pump fault (on rare occasions you may see both codes for running lean triggered)
Code 44 - RH Oxygen Sensor Lean (O2)
Code 64 - LH Oxygen Sensor Lean (O2)

 

[scrano]

Yeah I didn't think that it would be an injector problem, because I thought that something should've shown up when I checked it for error codes, and the only one that came up at all, was 64, which was the left hand O2 sensor lean, so I pulled it out, gave it and the wiring plug a clean (just used some MAF cleaner, that I had sitting close by, as I knew it'd be pretty safe with sensors, and pretty decent at removing gunk and grime), put it back in, and it seems fine.

After speaking too you guys last night, and from what I'd determined myself, through process of elimination, I figured it had to be the fuel pump, so I went ahead and put a new one in today, and it's now running like a dream.

Thanks again guys, all of the advice and assistance was really appreciated, because the car has a lot of sentimental value too all of our family, so both myself and my sister were really happy to see it running again.

Hey Jxw, how did you actually open those 2 pumps to see how far gone they were, if you don't mind me asking? Just curious, because I hung onto the old pump, and I was thinking about opening it up, and seeing how stuffed it was

 

[Jxfwsf]

hehe, very difficultly... used a small flat blade screw driver.. that method is not advisable, i have slipped and stabbed my hand with the small screw driver in the past.......

The pump is dead and you can't service or reuse any parts inside, grab a hacksaw and cut the thing open long ways down the aluminium and tear it apart with pliers (once again carefully as it'll create almost razor sharp edges where it tears).


the only reason i open them carefully, on the rare occasion i find 1 that can be reused in the home made parts washer (they don't last for long though with some of the crud i end up putting back through them and they leak like a sieve lol)....