Those A Pillars - Dangerous!

[Rombles]

But now repeat your test - this time hold your hand out at 45 degrees to where you're facing. Now run past your monitor. (And make sure you capture yourself doing this on video and post it ) How long is the monitor out of your sight?

I agree that it won't be out of sight for long, but without checking the statistics I would expect that the majority of accidents caused by things hidden in a blind spot would occur at a fairly low speed.... ie when slowed to approach a corner.... you check left, then right, at which point a pedestrian moves behind the A-pillar... quick check left again, looks clear so you go. Because we are all good drivers we would then see the pedestrian and 98 times out of 100 we would stop before we hit them, think to ourselves "Goodness me, where did they come from?" and then we go back to driving. Not seeing every pedestrian (or other obstacle) ALL the time EVERY time does not make you a bad driver. Taking off around that corner at a speed where you could not stop if a hidden obstacle did appear would make you a bad driver. But because we are all good drivers, and are aware THAT THERE MAY BE THINGS THERE THAT WE CANNOT SEE, we would all drive cautiously around corners where there is likely to be a danger. Not all corners present this danger, and I agree that the faster you go around the corner the less likely you are to have something move into your blind spot, but I don't think anyone would suggest that this is the best way to combat this problem.

I stand by my theory that the statement "there is no blind spot a pedestrian can disappear completely into without me knowing" makes Scotty a danger to all of Canberras pedestrians. Unless he can look left and right at the same time, of course.

 

[davey g-force]

Maybe the Stig is Scotty?

:rofl: ... LMAO...Good call mate!! :rofl:

 

[mongoose3800]

I have to say something. I understand Fnomna's point about 45 deg. In most cars that is a valid point as the pillars are rather triangular. But, the VE's pillars are rather square so at 45 deg their thickness does not appear to reduce - this why they block your view so much more. As I stated in another post, try blocking your vision with your thumb. Turn your thumb all you like it will still block out the same things. Yes at higher speed it is not as big an issue. Rombles seems to be able to see my point very well.

Comments like "there is no blind spot a pedestrian can disappear completely into without me knowing" are just vain and ignorant. No one is that good a driver! Check other forums and reviews and you'll see that people can disappear.

Now, I must get another thing of my chest. I find it insulting how some self confessed driving experts can dismiss the observations of others and make claims about bad driving. Well, I'd like to up the ante here. Let's lay down some real life experience. After a little research I find some of those dismissing the problem were born as early 1986. That just so happens to be the year I got my license. So, I've held my license for 20 years and pretty much been driving every day of those 20 years. In those 20 years I have not caused one single accident. I have had two idiots rear end me. One of those by an idiot doing +100km while I was stationary. Yes, I've been booked for speeding twice. I've owned over 14 cars, used to drive fleet cars for several years, I perform back yardies for families and friends. I honestly couldn't tell you how many cars I have driven but I can state that I know how to adjust to different cars. I've pretty much driven every model of Commodore/Falcon from VB/XC onwards. So, compared to those of you with a couple of years driving I would think it is fair to say that I know what I'm talking about and have a demonstrated an ability to drive and compare cars. I therefore think is fair for me to say that only a truly experienced driver would appreciate the dangers of a large blind spot in your primary field of vision. Stop dismissing it as O.K. Understand that there are plenty of below average drivers out there and perhaps provide some feedback in the hope that Holden may rectify the issue.

 

[1991_Vn2nV]

I have to say something. I understand Fnomna's point about 45 deg. In most cars that is a valid point as the pillars are rather triangular. But, the VE's pillars are rather square so at 45 deg their thickness does not appear to reduce - this why they block your view so much more. As I stated in another post, try blocking your vision with your thumb. Turn your thumb all you like it will still block out the same things. Yes at higher speed it is not as big an issue. Rombles seems to be able to see my point very well.

Comments like "there is no blind spot a pedestrian can disappear completely into without me knowing" are just vain and ignorant. No one is that good a driver! Check other forums and reviews and you'll see that people can disappear.

Now, I must get another thing of my chest. I find it insulting how some self confessed driving experts can dismiss the observations of others and make claims about bad driving. Well, I'd like to up the ante here. Let's lay down some real life experience. After a little research I find some of those dismissing the problem were born as early 1986. That just so happens to be the year I got my license. So, I've held my license for 20 years and pretty much been driving every day of those 20 years. In those 20 years I have not caused one single accident. I have had two idiots rear end me. One of those by an idiot doing +100km while I was stationary. Yes, I've been booked for speeding twice. I've owned over 14 cars, used to drive fleet cars for several years, I perform back yardies for families and friends. I honestly couldn't tell you how many cars I have driven but I can state that I know how to adjust to different cars. I've pretty much driven every model of Commodore/Falcon from VB/XC onwards. So, compared to those of you with a couple of years driving I would think it is fair to say that I know what I'm talking about and have a demonstrated an ability to drive and compare cars. I therefore think is fair for me to say that only a truly experienced driver would appreciate the dangers of a large blind spot in your primary field of vision. Stop dismissing it as O.K. Understand that there are plenty of below average drivers out there and perhaps provide some feedback in the hope that Holden may rectify the issue.

I agree with your last point, and being born in 1987 and only having my license for 2 years I cant argue at all. I've only owned 2 cars although i've driven plenty. From Peugot, Commodores, Diahatsu, Fords, Subaru's and BMW's.

But even in my VN I do find the A Pillar blind spot annoying when driving through the hills and I live in the hills and travel quite a twisty road twice a day everyday. I say annoying because I have to compensate for it, but some drivers may not.

Agreed it is dangerous for average drivers, but I dont think Holden can simply rectify the problem. The A pillar will not really change until the next platformed Commodore in 2012...No matter what sort of feedback we give Holden.

 

[mongoose3800]

Hey 1991_vn2nv. I'm interested to know if you have driven a VE yet. I ask this as I'd like to know what you think considering the pillars on VN's - VS's are pretty thin in my book. They're certainly thinner than in a VZ or BA. And i must say that even the pillars in a VZ or BA didn't bother me that much. I'd also be keen to see what you think about the vision in your car once you've driven a VE.

I agree that Holden may not be able to simply fix the problem. But, if it turns out to be a safety issue they may have to. Who knows.

 

[davey g-force]

...I dont think Holden can simply rectify the problem. The A pillar will not really change until the next platformed Commodore in 2012...No matter what sort of feedback we give Holden.

Agreed. Changing the A-pillar would involve changing pretty much the whole car - it aint gonna happen...

mongoose - you may have mentioned this before but I just want to clarify:
Is it the size of the A-pillars that's the problem or their position/angle? Or a combination of both?

 

[mongoose3800]

I think it's a combination of both. From the out side the pillars don't look that big. It's been a week since I drove the VE and (in all fairness) I really want to get back to a dealer to make sure my memory is just not distorting the size. At 6ft tall I don't need to sit close to the windscreen. It makes me wonder how much worse it is for short people! All I remember is 2 huge black columns in front of me and I just can't get them out of my mind. Nor can I forget the sensation I felt when I realised just how much better the vision was in my old bomb after driving the VE. My attention to the pillars in the VE was probably heightened when the pedestrian suddenly appeared in front of me - This really caught me by surprise and nothing similar has happened to me in my 20 years of driving.

 

[Scotty_Doesn't_Know]

My attention to the pillars in the VE was probably heightened when the passenger suddenly appeared in front of me - This really caught me by surprise and nothing similar has happened to me in my 20 years of driving.

Passengers really shouldn't be riding on the dash board. I'm betting your vision problem will be more based on that than the a-pillars.

Pedestrians come sometimes surprise people, but they will never be totally obscured by the a-pillars. You should always be scanning anyway and anticipate what people walking along the street may do. Basically, if you get surprised while driving, you aren't a good driver or, like mongoose, you have passengers on your dash!

 

[Demons1964]

I'm fortunate that I own a car from all 3 previous generations of the commodore: VC, VS and WH so it's easy to compare the changes over the last 30 years.

When I hop in the VC, the windscreen is far more vertical and the A pillar is rakishly thin = fantastic vision. The VS has a slightly more sloped windscreen and larger A pillars. I'm conscious of a blind spot up where the A pillar meets the roof - it's not large but it is there, but the vision is still pretty good. However when I get inside the WH I have a large blindspot to contend with, all the more evident with the rakish windscreen, thick A pillars and where the large radius curve of where the A pillar joins the roof. On top of that the door curves inwards towards my head. All this contributes to poor vision. Others have mentioned losing pedestrians in the blindspot, but I've even lost whole cars in the blindspot of the WH. When I'm at a roundabout I have to lean forward a fair bit and lean backwards to see around the A pillar.

I'm yet to drive a VE, but given I almost feel unsafe driving in the WH I may not end up buying one. All car makers have the A pillars getting larger with time (the BF Falcon is worse than the VT) as part of the "safety for the occupant" push, but the increasingly angled windscreens and radiused doors contribute largely to the problem of where you feel like you're in a bubble. It's a real concern and I can only see it changing with some form of material change within the A pillar construction (rather than the bigger steel box=stronger approach) to give some of the vision back to the driver.

Mark.

 

[mongoose3800]

Passengers really shouldn't be riding on the dash board. I'm betting your vision problem will be more based on that than the a-pillars.

Pedestrians come sometimes surprise people, but they will never be totally obscured by the a-pillars. You should always be scanning anyway and anticipate what people walking along the street may do. Basically, if you get surprised while driving, you aren't a good driver or, like mongoose, you have passengers on your dash!

Whoops. LOL. You've got a good sense of humour. I'll fix it.