Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

VF Holden CalaisV 2013

MyVf

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2024
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Points
1
Age
34
Location
NSW
Members Ride
Holden Vf Calais V 2013
Hi guys,
I've had nothing but heating/cooling issues with my car. Signs seem to be inconsistent with a failed thermostat.
Can anyone advise how many temp sensor/sender the Vf Calais 3.6l has. I changed the temp sensor and not getting to operating temp in the mornings.
Originally, car would start to over heat after 5 min of idle with thermo fans turning on and temp starting to rise and then fluctuating sporadically. Temp sensor fixed this. Now struggling to get to normal operating temp

Coolant levels fine.
Radiator only few years old
New radiator cap
New temp sensor
Heater works fine, air con not cold. Possible regas required
 

Fu Manchu

We’ll get together. Have a few laughs.
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
18,083
Reaction score
22,884
Points
113
Location
WA.
Members Ride
VZ Crewman, VZ Cross 8, & ya mum.
The procedure
 

MyVf

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2024
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Points
1
Age
34
Location
NSW
Members Ride
Holden Vf Calais V 2013
Bleed the air out.
Appreciate that. The was a symptom after adding coolant a few weeks back. That's been done.
The car is not overheating nor does it have a fluctuating temp.
The car wont get to temp in the morning and trips the temp gauge to turn off.
The tempt sensor was replaced.
Can you advise if there is more than one temp sensor/senders?
 

Fu Manchu

We’ll get together. Have a few laughs.
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
18,083
Reaction score
22,884
Points
113
Location
WA.
Members Ride
VZ Crewman, VZ Cross 8, & ya mum.
Wouldn’t be unheard of for new parts to be faulty.
 

Fu Manchu

We’ll get together. Have a few laughs.
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
18,083
Reaction score
22,884
Points
113
Location
WA.
Members Ride
VZ Crewman, VZ Cross 8, & ya mum.
You can test them in hot water with a multimeter
 

Skylarking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
10,157
Reaction score
10,668
Points
113
Age
123
Location
Downunder
Members Ride
Commodore Motorsport Edition
Can anyone advise how many temp sensor/sender the Vf Calais 3.6l has.
There is always the VF workshop manual in PDF form. Admittedly it takes a while to learn how the manual is structures and where things are so one can manually navigate the broken links but it’s worth getting as it will provide most of what you need and more…

In fact the sensor schematics on page 4789 only shows a single 2 wire engine coolant temperature sensor connected to ECU for LFW/LFX. The cylinder head assembly view on page 5604 shows the engine coolant temp sensor is located on passenger side bank towards the front for the LFX/LFW. I havent checked the actual location as I dont have an LFX/LFW ;)
engine coolant sensor schematics.JPG


engine coolant sensor location.JPG


See the following post #9 for a link to a free copy of the workshop manual :cool:

https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/genuine-gm-service-manuals.265174/post-2903791

I've had nothing but heating/cooling issues with my car. Signs seem to be inconsistent with a failed thermostat.

… I changed the temp sensor and not getting to operating temp in the mornings.
Really, if you are having coolant temperature issues, you need to compare what the ECU sees with independant measurements you make. Then check wiring and sensor performance as appropriate. Obviously if the sensor is determined as the thing thats faulty you'd change the sensor but if its a wiring issues youd fix the wiring. The diagnostics trouble codes (DTC's) can give hints where the problem may be but you need to diagnose and confirm ;)

In the past diagnosis was more easily done by removing parts and testing them as things were very analog. Unfortunately these days the problem seems to be that some mechanics seem to have forgotten how to diagnose and/or use a separate independent devices (like a thermometer) to check what the car’s ECU sees (actual temp) is indeed within correct limits (as measured by the thermometer). Seems the strategy these days is primarily ECU driven DTC parts canon approach. Sadly it's too common an occurance where the owner find the fault remains after paying for the new parts, often because the fault is not the sensor but some wiring or module issue that wasn't correctly diagnosed :mad:

So read the workshop manual and understand how the VF coolant system works and how to diagnose problems as that will be helpful.

Once you’re satisfied that the coolant sensor is reading correctly and fans turn on in a staged fashion as expected, yet you still have issues, then you need to go further into a diagnosis (which the workshop manual goes into)…

Keep in mind that mecahniocal issues can influense cooling system performance, For example if you have a lot of leaf matter stuck in front of the aircon condenser or between aircon condenser and coolant radiator, air won’t flow nicely through the coolant radiator and coolant system will misbehave and overheat. In older cars with iron block, alloy head and brass radiator, often the radiator internal passages would fill up with rust matter and such blockages due to poor maintenance and in essence reduce the radiator surface cooling area yet because of [packaging you could place your hands on the radiator surface and feel the cool spots wee the internal passages were cblocked. Good luck doing that with a modern car. Such internal blockages are less of an issue when everything is alloy but who knows what condition things are in… Still, in such cases you’d expect to see the coolant system get hotter quicker… not stay cold as you're experiancing…

Also keep in mind that if the pressure cap isn’t performing as required due to worn or smooshed cap o-ring or aftermarket cap or damahed coolant cap sealing surface, the coolant pressure may not build as expected and thus coolant can’t carry away as much heat… which is why you check the radiator sealing surface where the cap is fitted and buy a new factory cap… Generally a sweet smell around the car/cabin indicates a coolant leak so you need to find it and checking the cap is the first thing. Again the coolant should get hotter quicker with a faulty cap, not stay cold as you are experiancing.

But this then brings up the issue of how you actually have determined the cooling system isn;t getting hot? Id it through independant temp measurements, using the HVAC heater and not getting heat or something else?

At the end of the day if airflow through the radiator is ok and pressure cap is ok and the electronics are working as expected, then the issue may be old style mechanical where the thermostat is intermittently sticking. Anything intermittent = PITA but a stuck open thermostat will result in the cooling system taking longer for the coolant to reach operating temperature... but it will reach operating temperature by virtue of the combusion occuring within the engine...

Just not ethat if you have low coolant so the temp sensor isn’t covered in coolant, the ECU will see low temps even though the vehicle may be overheating, so alwasy check for correct coolant levels while ensuring all air is fully bled from the system... Else you may damage the engine from unwittingly overheating. is important.

In all older car I’ve owned, I just replace the thermostat as it’s cheap and easy… But on a Holden v6 it’s a PITA to remove and replace the thermostat so its expensive which makes people reluctant to do what should be done… Still, if you’ve done everything else (checked sensor, sensor wiring and CAN coolant temp data* is all correct and also checked cap sealing surface arent scratched or marked and that colant opressure is building in the radiator hoses) then you may need to bite the bullet and just replace the potentially intermittent sticking thermostat :oops:

* hint: i'd be checking can data and ensureing the coolant temp is indeed logical. Youd think that in the morning after a cold 15C night, the can data should show 15C coolant temps at first start and it should slowly increase from there. At 82C the fans shold kick in and progressively get faster as temps increase further. If can data doesnt seem logical, then check sensor wiring at ECU and go from there...
 

MyVf

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2024
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Points
1
Age
34
Location
NSW
Members Ride
Holden Vf Calais V 2013
There is always the VF workshop manual in PDF form. Admittedly it takes a while to learn how the manual is structures and where things are so one can manually navigate the broken links but it’s worth getting as it will provide most of what you need and more…

In fact the sensor schematics on page 4789 only shows a single 2 wire engine coolant temperature sensor connected to ECU for LFW/LFX. The cylinder head assembly view on page 5604 shows the engine coolant temp sensor is located on passenger side bank towards the front for the LFX/LFW. I havent checked the actual location as I dont have an LFX/LFW ;)
View attachment 266754

View attachment 266755

See the following post #9 for a link to a free copy of the workshop manual :cool:

https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/genuine-gm-service-manuals.265174/post-2903791


Really, if you are having coolant temperature issues, you need to compare what the ECU sees with independant measurements you make. Then check wiring and sensor performance as appropriate. Obviously if the sensor is determined as the thing thats faulty you'd change the sensor but if its a wiring issues youd fix the wiring. The diagnostics trouble codes (DTC's) can give hints where the problem may be but you need to diagnose and confirm ;)

In the past diagnosis was more easily done by removing parts and testing them as things were very analog. Unfortunately these days the problem seems to be that some mechanics seem to have forgotten how to diagnose and/or use a separate independent devices (like a thermometer) to check what the car’s ECU sees (actual temp) is indeed within correct limits (as measured by the thermometer). Seems the strategy these days is primarily ECU driven DTC parts canon approach. Sadly it's too common an occurance where the owner find the fault remains after paying for the new parts, often because the fault is not the sensor but some wiring or module issue that wasn't correctly diagnosed :mad:

So read the workshop manual and understand how the VF coolant system works and how to diagnose problems as that will be helpful.

Once you’re satisfied that the coolant sensor is reading correctly and fans turn on in a staged fashion as expected, yet you still have issues, then you need to go further into a diagnosis (which the workshop manual goes into)…

Keep in mind that mecahniocal issues can influense cooling system performance, For example if you have a lot of leaf matter stuck in front of the aircon condenser or between aircon condenser and coolant radiator, air won’t flow nicely through the coolant radiator and coolant system will misbehave and overheat. In older cars with iron block, alloy head and brass radiator, often the radiator internal passages would fill up with rust matter and such blockages due to poor maintenance and in essence reduce the radiator surface cooling area yet because of [packaging you could place your hands on the radiator surface and feel the cool spots wee the internal passages were cblocked. Good luck doing that with a modern car. Such internal blockages are less of an issue when everything is alloy but who knows what condition things are in… Still, in such cases you’d expect to see the coolant system get hotter quicker… not stay cold as you're experiancing…

Also keep in mind that if the pressure cap isn’t performing as required due to worn or smooshed cap o-ring or aftermarket cap or damahed coolant cap sealing surface, the coolant pressure may not build as expected and thus coolant can’t carry away as much heat… which is why you check the radiator sealing surface where the cap is fitted and buy a new factory cap… Generally a sweet smell around the car/cabin indicates a coolant leak so you need to find it and checking the cap is the first thing. Again the coolant should get hotter quicker with a faulty cap, not stay cold as you are experiancing.

But this then brings up the issue of how you actually have determined the cooling system isn;t getting hot? Id it through independant temp measurements, using the HVAC heater and not getting heat or something else?

At the end of the day if airflow through the radiator is ok and pressure cap is ok and the electronics are working as expected, then the issue may be old style mechanical where the thermostat is intermittently sticking. Anything intermittent = PITA but a stuck open thermostat will result in the cooling system taking longer for the coolant to reach operating temperature... but it will reach operating temperature by virtue of the combusion occuring within the engine...

Just not ethat if you have low coolant so the temp sensor isn’t covered in coolant, the ECU will see low temps even though the vehicle may be overheating, so alwasy check for correct coolant levels while ensuring all air is fully bled from the system... Else you may damage the engine from unwittingly overheating. is important.

In all older car I’ve owned, I just replace the thermostat as it’s cheap and easy… But on a Holden v6 it’s a PITA to remove and replace the thermostat so its expensive which makes people reluctant to do what should be done… Still, if you’ve done everything else (checked sensor, sensor wiring and CAN coolant temp data* is all correct and also checked cap sealing surface arent scratched or marked and that colant opressure is building in the radiator hoses) then you may need to bite the bullet and just replace the potentially intermittent sticking thermostat :oops:

* hint: i'd be checking can data and ensureing the coolant temp is indeed logical. Youd think that in the morning after a cold 15C night, the can data should show 15C coolant temps at first start and it should slowly increase from there. At 82C the fans shold kick in and progressively get faster as temps increase further. If can data doesnt seem logical, then check sensor wiring at ECU and go from there...
Mate, I don't know what to say. You went to a significant amount of effort in your response. I can't thank you enough for taking the time and getting into such detail. Just happens in the mornings.

Its been a loop of replacing parts ie, radiator and hoses, radiator cap, temp sensor. I've been doing everything to avoid replacing thermostat but the issues have never been consistent. Bare in mind my car is coming on 300k now so maintenance is a virtue. Engine mounts, strut mounts, muffler, torque converter, rear main seal been done so I had the opportunity twice to replace before it starting playing up.
I will go ahead with your advice and send an update on my findings.
Thank You!
 
Top