VF S2 or ZB, what to buy

[J_D 2.0]

My concerns were mainly around other Holden cars such the trax, cruze, captiva having major components failure early,

All those cars were rebadged Daewoo's and the ZB was a rebadged Opel, which would make a difference in the reliability stakes.

It will probably make some difference WRT spare parts down the track as that car was sold as the Opel Insignia in the EU, Vauxhall Insignia in the UK and Buick Regal in the US. So potentially parts availability down the line might be better for the ZB?

Having said that, more complexity is more potential points of failure down the road and the higher complexity of the ZB might lead to less reliability than a VF as it gets older.

I can’t add any lived experience here though as I’ve only gone as far as VE series one as I didn’t want to get a car with all the electronics and extra potential for problems.

The VE series one for me is in that sweet spot of having enough mod cons to be comfortable and not so much that you need to pay thousands of dollars for a windscreen replacement because the autonomous braking cameras need to be recalibrated or replaced.

 

[car_died_need_a_new_one]

I recall Smitty who I think has something to do with fleets of VF’s and ZB’s saying the durability of some of the components in the VF’s were more reliable than the ZB’s. I think he said something about gear box problems.
I don't know how to link sh1t, but I found a post made by Smitty on 29th October last year about selling the fleet of ZBs. If you do a search around that time.

Hi - yes I did see that post, thanks. I have tried to really check what was out there before I posted, as peoples time is valuable.

I am only really looking at the v6 awd atm because money wise they aren't much more for a low km example.

Even with them being improved, the ecotech engines are still too risky for me.

I think I will test drive one.

 

[car_died_need_a_new_one]

Thanks so much, yes I did see the JC report on that issue you linked.
If I like one I will buy it, I will probably buy a few common bits and put them in storage such a thermostat as it a known problem for the V6. I agree modern cars have hit a point in my opinion were they are too complex, does your V8 have cylinder deactivation tech?

 

[StrayKiwi]

I have a local VXR that I will go and test drive very soon

I thought you said you were looking to buy a wagon?

 

[J_D 2.0]

Thanks so much, yes I did see the JC report on that issue you linked.
If I like one I will buy it, I will probably buy a few common bits and put them in storage such a thermostat as it a known problem for the V6. I agree modern cars have hit a point in my opinion were they are too complex, does your V8 have cylinder deactivation tech?

It’s definitely a good idea to have a collection of spare parts on hand if you’re planning to keep the car for an extended period. The most cost effective option is to buy items that almost certainly won’t be made aftermarket down the track or will be unreliable if they are made aftermarket. Stuff like electronic sensors, etc.

I bought a genuine accelerator pedal for my SSV as others on here have had issues with keeping older model Commodores on the road as the accelerator pedals are no longer available and getting rare secondhand as well.

I specifically bought my manual SSV because it has an L98 engine in it, which doesn’t have any of the cylinder deactivation or variable valve timing shitfuckery in it. The KISS principle goes a long way with me!

 

[stooge]

The VE series one for me is in that sweet spot of having enough mod cons to be comfortable and not so much that you need to pay thousands of dollars for a windscreen replacement because the autonomous braking cameras need to be recalibrated or replaced.

that video is not really about complex systems costing thousands, it is more about the manufacturer taking the piss out of the customer.
the part is not worth 9k in the exact same way the dpf replacement was not 14k for the hilux a few years back.

the lens can be cleaned but they are taking the customer for a ride.

the forward vision systems have been around for almost 10 years now in pretty much every major brand of vehicle and aftermarket windscreen replacements have been taking place at places like obriens with them calibrating the system after the replacement without issue.
there are manufacturers guidelines published to do the process which obriens will have.

what we are probably looking at with this case on the newer subarus is an attempt by the manufacturer to lock down the replacement to their service department much is the same way apple serializes parts of the iphone dribbling nonsense it is about "security" but in this case it is about "safety"

its crap like this that causes more people to fight for "right to repair"

its a trickle down effect, many companies worldwide watch what people will accept and what they wont and the automotive industry is desperate to cash in on the whole idea of "authorized service only" which is the same garbage apple has managed for force on to millions of people and they not only accept it they "fanboi" over it lol.
phone or car does not matter, it is how the process is perceived and accepted that matters.

look at the idea of subscriptions, the software industry moved to being mainly a subscription model with many of the most popular programs shift from buy to own to a subscription model and it generated billions in revenue so what do we see next...
thats right subscriptions for features in vehicles like remote start, heated seats and now they are working on infotainment subscription services like navigation, dab+ and so on.

so what we have now is subaru owners worrying that if they dont get the windscreen replaced by the dealer they could be on the hook for 9k so where do you think they are going to go.
its the same fear tactic apple deployed with replacing the screen or home button bricking the phone, it made the news then people got scared and wouldnt get those parts replaced in the non authorized repair stores.
its that bad now that the hall effect sensor in a macbook which is used to detect if the lid is closed is serialized and replacing it outside of apple causes it not to work and not only did they do that they made sure the one from the factory has a propensity to fail to keep the suckers coming back.

anyway that was a bit of a rant but i am just trying to point out that while complex systems do have more points that can fail it does not always mean they will fail or cost you your first born child to repair.

 

[J_D 2.0]

that video is not really about complex systems costing thousands, it is more about the manufacturer taking the piss out of the customer.
the part is not worth 9k in the exact same way the dpf replacement was not 14k for the hilux a few years back.

the lens can be cleaned but they are taking the customer for a ride.

Sure, but if you don’t have any of those systems then they can’t pull their shitfuckery in the name of safety on you in the first place.

the forward vision systems have been around for almost 10 years now in pretty much every major brand of vehicle and aftermarket windscreen replacements have been taking place at places like obriens with them calibrating the system after the replacement without issue.

Yes they have been doing it without issue, but it’s not cheap at all. A few of the reps/managers company cars at my work have had to have windscreens replaced with those camera systems in them and it’s at least a couple of grand to replace the windscreen and recalibrate the cameras, even at Windscreens Obrien.

 

[stooge]

Yes they have been doing it without issue, but it’s not cheap at all. A few of the reps/managers company cars at my work have had to have windscreens replaced with those camera systems in them and it’s at least a couple of grand to replace the windscreen and recalibrate the cameras, even at Windscreens Obrien.

they are taking the piss, the recalibration is a simple process done by using a mdi, if they are charging thousands for that then i would be going elsewhere.

its not a magical system that needs special unicorns to make it work, it just needs points of reference confirmed and its good to go.

that being said if you use the oem part for most vehicles its going to be 500~1000 for the part.

for instance the replacement part for my mitsu outlander is 1200 oem and 385 aftermarket, installation fee is probably 200 so i would be looking at 500 to 1700 depending on parts and labour.

i dont need to worry though because my insurance covers it at no cost to me so it would go to the dealer and they can pay for it lol

 

[J_D 2.0]

they are taking the piss, the recalibration is a simple process done by using a mdi, if they are charging thousands for that then i would be going elsewhere.

its not a magical system that needs special unicorns to make it work, it just needs points of reference confirmed and its good to go.

I’m sure the windscreen mob sees a company car coming in and hits them up for it but it’s still far more expensive than an old school windscreen replacement.

And again, if you don’t have those systems in the first place then they can’t stitch you up for their exorbitant “safety comes first regardless of the cost” bullshite.

i dont need to worry though because my insurance covers it at no cost to me so it would go to the dealer and they can pay for it lol

Having free windscreen replacement on your insurance policy is a must in my books if your car has all the safety tech on it.

 

[chrisp]

they are taking the piss, the recalibration is a simple process done by using a mdi, if they are charging thousands for that then i would be going elsewhere.

its not a magical system that needs special unicorns to make it work, it just needs points of reference confirmed and its good to go.

that being said if you use the oem part for most vehicles its going to be 500~1000 for the part.

I vaguely recall reading the ‘recalibration procedure’ in the offical VF manual. It was a long time ago, and my recollection might be faulty, but I seem to recall that the camera is self calibrating, so all that was required was to drive the vehicle on some straight roads and allow the camera to work out where the edges of the road are. But the VF only has a passive lane departure warnings, so other systems with active lane-keep probably need a more rigorous recalibration.

I just had a Quick Look in the manual. No calibration required if the windscreen is replaced…