[VT-VX] How To Increase Alternator Output Voltage

[Jolls]

I told you. If you have a 65amp alt @12v compare that to a 65amp alt @13v the 13v one has more wattage.
I don't know how much more you want me to explain.
I'm not as articulate as both of them as I'm a mechanic I didn't go on through school. So you get my raw words.

In simple terms yes; to a point. I have no\t argued against this. But we aren't discussing the output is within a limited range. The current carrying capability of the windings, the ability to create a field capable of generating the voltage, hysterisis and a number of other physical issues limit output.

If it was as simple as you indicate power generation across the country would be simple. If it was as you say why would we produce higher rated alternators? We wouldn't, we would just keep increasing the voltage to produce more power. Let me put it in mechanics terms. If I was to continue to add more fuel to the engine it will go faster without limitation. Is this true? No. So why do you think an alternator or electrical system is any different.

I'm not saying the mod wont do as @immortality has indicated. I just didn't understand the why. Now that I understand the why I can make an informed decisioin on its utility.

 

[shane_3800]

In simple terms yes; to a point. I have no\t argued against this. But we aren't discussing the output is within a limited range. The current carrying capability of the windings, the ability to create a field capable of generating the voltage, hysterisis and a number of other physical issues limit output.

If it was as simple as you indicate power generation across the country would be simple. If it was as you say why would we produce higher rated alternators? We wouldn't, we would just keep increasing the voltage to produce more power. Let me put it in mechanics terms. If I was to continue to add more fuel to the engine it will go faster without limitation. Is this true? No. So why do you think an alternator or electrical system is any different.

I'm not saying the mod wont do as @immortality has indicated. I just didn't understand the why. Now that I understand the why I can make an informed decisioin on its utility.

The common used alternators are 100amp at 16v which is 1600w. The wattage is the limit not the amperage to a degree. Yes if you exceed the amps at a low voltage you might reach thermal before max watts but that's a failure so moot.

You are over thinking things. Watts is the figure you need to look at when looking at electrical things.

It's like engines and torque. Torque is just a number on the reaction rod but watts is torque times time.

 

[Jolls]

Watts is exactly the thing I have argued, If I referred to current. power or volts they are all related.

The question I asked was increasing the voltage to what end. The theory behind it has overshadowed this very simple question.

I'm not overthinking anything; simply providing the reasoning behind why many of the arguments put forward were flawed.

What @immortality proposed will work exactly as described - no doubt, It could also destroy the battery if used on a healthy system. Would it help with fuel pressure - probably - but is fuel pressure something that needs addressing? If it is you could alternatively install the correctly rated pump.

Make your own decision as to the utility.

 

[Pollushon]

Seems it's not something easily explained in text and whether you agree or not this type of mod has been around forever because it works

 

[vc commodore]

10y out of a battery is good. The fleet landcruisers we get at work get about 8 out of theirs. Most cars get 5 to 6 years out of the first then 2 to 3 years out of aftermarket batteries.
Well that's in Canberra where we get big temp swings.
The MF batteries go okay I've seen some last 5 to 6 years under the right conditions. They aren't sealed they have a matrix on top that lets the gas out but not the fluid.

I've gotten 4 years out of my battery thus far....Temperature swings from 5 degrees to 42 to 45 degrees around my neck of the woods.....My battery is a century....Good enough or not?

 

[Immortality]

Watts is exactly the thing I have argued, If I referred to current. power or volts they are all related.

The question I asked was increasing the voltage to what end. The theory behind it has overshadowed this very simple question.

I'm not overthinking anything; simply providing the reasoning behind why many of the arguments put forward were flawed.

What @immortality proposed will work exactly as described - no doubt, It could also destroy the battery if used on a healthy system. Would it help with fuel pressure - probably - but is fuel pressure something that needs addressing? If it is you could alternatively install the correctly rated pump.

Make your own decision as to the utility.

I used the fuel pump as an example but the same theory applies to other electrical components (ignition systems, head lights etc).

This is from a different forum but again shows that voltage is an important consideration.

Thanks everyone, I have purchased a powermaster race 16v alternator so all good. Smitty, I did a thorough dyno session with a super sedan engine a while back, baseline was with the dyno battery and alternator around 14v. Then tested with a fully charged 12v battery and no alternator, lost about 5-6 hp. Then a 3/4 charged 12v battery no alternator, lost another 5-6 hp, this test simulated what the output would be at the end of a race. Then a fully charged 16v race battery, no alternator, picked up 6 hp over the 12v with alternator combo.
This was with MSD ignition and simulated race set up how it is raced with no alternator. I am going this way for my own drag car and 6 hp is 6 hp, I am picky with things like that.

 

[shane_3800]

It's amazing how much better cars drive with a new battery.

 

[Jolls]

Seems it's not something easily explained in text and whether you agree or not this type of mod has been around forever because it works

I have not ever said it doesn't work I asked "to whar end". Apart from the fuel pump example - to which I believe upgrading the pump is a better solution - there has been no other valid reason provided for doing so provided. It will no doubt make an unhelathy system work better - but if you fixed the underlying problem it wouldn't be required.

Your explanation of sagging (voltage drop) is a well understood electrical pehenomenon. That is why the systems are run in parralell as opposed to series - so that constant voltage is applied to critical component. Voltage drop is catered for in design - cables are sized to be protected from overload and minimise the drop, series parallel systems are designed with this in mind, If you add so much stuff to your vehicle that you need more power than the alternator can provide - you have to upgrade the alternator to meet the power requirement - you can't magic the power up by changing the voltage. If your system is not at capacity you can play around with the delta between what is being used and what is available - that is what this mod does.

It has been around for years because it a neat trick that makes people think they are getting something from nothing. Given there are milions of cars on the road without this mod and we are not hearing complaints from the rooftops I still ask why?

I would love to the stats for people doing this mod on healthy systems and pushing the output too high resulting premature batteyr failure as a result of overcharging..

I've gotten 4 years out of my battery thus far....Temperature swings from 5 degrees to 42 to 45 degrees around my neck of the woods.....My battery is a century....Good enough or not?

4 plus years out a battery that is a critical system component is not bad in such temperature extremes. Century have an average battery life of 42 moinths so you are on the plus side of the average. Car batteries have such a short lifespan because they are pretty much abused - high loads for short terms - overcharged, undercharged depending on the sophistication of the charging system and the lenght of time they are driven.

A lead acid battery in ac ontrolled environement like an off grid solar system can last eight to ten years because its charge and discharge rates are closely managed.

 

[Jolls]

Thanks everyone, I have purchased a powermaster race 16v alternator so all good. Smitty, I did a thorough dyno session with a super sedan engine a while back, baseline was with the dyno battery and alternator around 14v. Then tested with a fully charged 12v battery and no alternator, lost about 5-6 hp. Then a 3/4 charged 12v battery no alternator, lost another 5-6 hp, this test simulated what the output would be at the end of a race. Then a fully charged 16v race battery, no alternator, picked up 6 hp over the 12v with alternator combo.
This was with MSD ignition and simulated race set up how it is raced with no alternator. I am going this way for my own drag car and 6 hp is 6 hp, I am picky with things like that.

This is a completely different scenario and looks at voltage drop in a race car. No alternator dto drag down performance etc. It is not comparing apples with apples. This is not related to the mod but a different set of circumstances The test result are power lost through a system relying only on the battery - which is not designed to cater for the voltage drop. The 16V race battery is.

 

[Immortality]

This is a completely different scenario and looks at voltage drop in a race car. No alternator dto drag down performance etc. It is not comparing apples with apples. This is not related to the mod but a different set of circumstances The test result are power lost through a system relying only on the battery - which is not designed to cater for the voltage drop. The 16V race battery is.

The example shows the detriment of voltage drop in a standard 12 volt system.