2016 Holden Commodore Redline - stuffed transmission

[Skylarking]

I get that people think the factory trans service interval is far too long between drinks at 150,000 but that’s what the factory specified. Heck Holden even went to the trouble of removing the dip stick so owners can’t check fluid levels themselves and have turned a simple owner check into a mechanics service activity.

So Holden shouldn’t then use the fact that the trans wasn’t serviced more frequently as an excuse not to stand by their product. Holden also should use the harsh service schedule as an excuse nor to stand by their product unless the service centre specified in writing one of the service receipts that they recommend the owner follow the harsh service schedule because of the way the vehicle is used.

But what we’ve been told by the OP, the car has had a well serviced gentle life and no one can explain why the gearbox fail? Was it the infamous known defect of a cracked oil pump* (or such)? I find it odd that none of the service experts can explain what caused the trans failure.

My $2500 laptop is 3 years old, covered by a 12 month stat warranty.

The ACL legislation doesn’t specify a duration for our statutory warranty which is by design. So for you to say “12 month stat warranty” highlights your lack of understanding of the way the legislation is written.

A manufacturers warranty is a voluntary warranty, not a statutory warranty. Oh, and Apple have being fined millions for pushing their Apple Care warranty in many countries… but that’s another story…

And many PC manufacturers have been forced to provide remedies and extended warranty for known manufacturing defects well outside their voluntary factory warranty period. So in some cases having them fix a laptop after some years depends on what the fault is and may not be a stretch…

the problem here (Ford DTC) was this was a widespread fault, caused by a known defect that ACCC eventually won on because it impacted most if not all of those transmissions.
:
Theres a big difference between one persons part failing before they'd expect it to, and an actual known proven defective part that plagues a line of vehicles which is when the ACCC should be getting involved, not over one transmission failure.

Yes ACCC got involved in the case because Fords illegal actions were impacting a great many people. But to put it in pure and simple terms, ACCC won not because of the numbers of people impacted but because Ford wasn't following the law and repairing these defective gearboxes for their impacted customers.

ACCC simply wouldn’t (for the most part) get involved in a single case (unless there are industry wide implications) as it’s not their purview.

A single trans failure (which has hallmarks of failing the durability requirements of ACL) falls squarely with state consumer group purview (though it’s still worth reporting it to ACCC so they can gather stats and see if it’s a bigger problem than a one off).

The fact OP is from NZed, that means ACCC has no bearing on this… and I’m not even sure if there is an NZ equivalent as such powers may all sit with the Commerce Commission.

As for down under, all products sold within this country by businesses must meet the following.

Consumers have the following guarantees in respect of goods: goods are of acceptable quality—that is, they are safe, durable and free from defects, are acceptable in appearance and finish and do what they are ordinarily expected to do (ACL section 54)​

The NZ law is rather similar if I’m not mistaken.

So in what world should a transmission maintained according to the manufacturers requirements fail after 7 years and 130,000 if it is durable and most would expect decades of life out of it (rhetorical)?

Really, the moral of the story or lesson should be to change fluids much more frequently than the service schedule states because too often an oil change has never killed a gearbox or engine… Much easier than fighting a recalcitrant manufacturer who no longer gives a ****.

(Sticking to the service schedule doesn‘t absolve the manufacturer‘s responsibility that their product is durable… but it can cause headaches for the owner)

* I think the cracked oil pump was a 6L45E issue (so VE?) but not sure

 

[vc commodore]

I get that people think the factory trans service interval is far too long between drinks at 150,000 but that’s what the factory specified. Heck Holden even went to the trouble of removing the dip stick so owners can’t check fluid levels themselves and have turned a simple owner check into a mechanics service activity.

So Holden shouldn’t then use the fact that the trans wasn’t serviced more frequently as an excuse not to stand by their product. Holden also should use the harsh service schedule as an excuse nor to stand by their product unless the service centre specified in writing one of the service receipts that they recommend the owner follow the harsh service schedule because of the way the vehicle is used.

But what we’ve been told by the OP, the car has had a well serviced gentle life and no one can explain why the gearbox fail? Was it the infamous known defect of a cracked oil pump* (or such)? I find it odd that none of the service experts can explain what caused the trans failure.


The ACL legislation doesn’t specify a duration for our statutory warranty which is by design. So for you to say “12 month stat warranty” highlights your lack of understanding of the way the legislation is written.

A manufacturers warranty is a voluntary warranty, not a statutory warranty. Oh, and Apple have being fined millions for pushing their Apple Care warranty in many countries… but that’s another story…

And many PC manufacturers have been forced to provide remedies and extended warranty for known manufacturing defects well outside their voluntary factory warranty period. So in some cases having them fix a laptop after some years depends on what the fault is and may not be a stretch…

Yes ACCC got involved in the case because Fords illegal actions were impacting a great many people. But to put it in pure and simple terms, ACCC won not because of the numbers of people impacted but because Ford wasn't following the law and repairing these defective gearboxes for their impacted customers.

ACCC simply wouldn’t (for the most part) get involved in a single case (unless there are industry wide implications) as it’s not their purview.

A single trans failure (which has hallmarks of failing the durability requirements of ACL) falls squarely with state consumer group purview (though it’s still worth reporting it to ACCC so they can gather stats and see if it’s a bigger problem than a one off).

The fact OP is from NZed, that means ACCC has no bearing on this… and I’m not even sure if there is an NZ equivalent as such powers may all sit with the Commerce Commission.

As for down under, all products sold within this country by businesses must meet the following.

Consumers have the following guarantees in respect of goods: goods are of acceptable quality—that is, they are safe, durable and free from defects, are acceptable in appearance and finish and do what they are ordinarily expected to do (ACL section 54)​

The NZ law is rather similar if I’m not mistaken.

So in what world should a transmission maintained according to the manufacturers requirements fail after 7 years and 130,000 if it is durable and most would expect decades of life out of it (rhetorical)?

Really, the moral of the story or lesson should be to change fluids much more frequently than the service schedule states because too often an oil change has never killed a gearbox or engine… Much easier than fighting a recalcitrant manufacturer who no longer gives a ****.

(Sticking to the service schedule doesn‘t absolve the manufacturer‘s responsibility that their product is durable… but it can cause headaches for the owner)

* I think the cracked oil pump was a 6L45E issue (so VE?) but not sure

My line of thought behind the failure is, lack of fluid changing.....

Struck a similar issue with my VY....Not sure of the gearbox service history, stupid me didn't keep an eye on it...One day, drove for 10 minutes and had a box full of neutrals......Let it cool down, all good again.

Turned out, the fluid was old, which in turn failed to lubricate the clutch bands, which then clogged the filter up and caused the box full of neutrals.

About 12 months down the track, so far so good....Gearbox is still in the car, still changing gears properly....Not sure of kays though as my cluster LED display is black so I can't keep an eye on kays...(PS don't let @gossie know this)

It's also painful, alot of car manufacturers are doing this no trans dipstick style set up and claiming a sealed gearbox for life.....Unfortunately since the first manufacturer introduced this, others have followed suit and the end consumer that knows nothing about mechanics suffers

 

[Immortality]

I don't think Holden ever offered a 7 year warranty here in NZ, only 5 years.

If the owners manual says 150,000km service interval for the auto trans and it's only done 130,000km than by Holden's standards the fluid should still be ok and not in a lack of service scenario. Now we all know better about transmission fluid but those are the facts.

Been that the car is well outside it's warranty period I don't think there is much recourse from that point of view.

In a perfect world nothing would ever fail but it's a sad fact, most transmission will probably work well long beyond the factory warranty but a certain %age will fail whether it be from faulty parts, poor workmanship when assembled etc.

 

[lmfvf2ssredlineute]

what is the point of holden removing the dip stick and 150k first trans service oil change
is it a marketing ploy to keep servicing cost down so tom dick or harry say wow thats a great deal , no more money to spend servicing the auto trans
or is it other manufacturers are doing sealed for life autos and holden better do it too for sales
its like grease nipples, every service so many lube points, the added cost service time ect
now we have sealed for life ball and uni joints
as skylarking has said holden would have tested the transmissions to destruction to make sure they at least lasted to 150ks to protect them selves from warranty claims
also i bet holden would count on buyers moving the car on and buying another before the car hits the 150k mark and its then sold on in the second hand car market

 

[vc commodore]

what is the point of holden removing the dip stick and 150k first trans service oil change
is it a marketing ploy to keep servicing cost down so tom dick or harry say wow thats a great deal , no more money to spend servicing the auto trans
or is it other manufacturers are doing sealed for life autos and holden better do it too for sales
its like grease nipples, every service so many lube points, the added cost service time ect
now we have sealed for life ball and uni joints
as skylarking has said holden would have tested the transmissions to destruction to make sure they at least lasted to 150ks to protect them selves from warranty claims
also i bet holden would count on buyers moving the car on and buying another before the car hits the 150k mark and its then sold on in the second hand car market

Ford back in the mid 90's started the trend of sealed for life transmissions....Shite memory serves me right, it was around the EF series

Why they did it and other manufacturers followed suit is anyones guess.

So it's not just Holden counting on it...Other manufacturers would be to, so pointless just being narky at Holden for doing it

 

[Immortality]

what is the point of holden removing the dip stick and 150k first trans service oil change
is it a marketing ploy to keep servicing cost down so tom dick or harry say wow thats a great deal , no more money to spend servicing the auto trans
or is it other manufacturers are doing sealed for life autos and holden better do it too for sales
its like grease nipples, every service so many lube points, the added cost service time ect
now we have sealed for life ball and uni joints
as skylarking has said holden would have tested the transmissions to destruction to make sure they at least lasted to 150ks to protect them selves from warranty claims
also i bet holden would count on buyers moving the car on and buying another before the car hits the 150k mark and its then sold on in the second hand car market

Of course it's all a marketing ploy to advertise the reduced cost of owning a vehicle but everyone has to draw a line in the sand somewhere on what reasonable expectation is. Why do manufacturers stipulate both a time and a distance? Why not just a straight 100,000km warranty? Or simply just 3 or 5 or 7 years?

Same goes for every industry. At my old job we had machines that were 40 years + old, some where on there 2nd or 3rd rebuild but they still went and they were covered in grease nipples, we had the newest most up to date versions of those machines too, almost no grease nipples and plastic parts that needed replacement after a few years service.

Vehicle use is very important, people think doing the daily school run or putting around town isn't hard use but it can be. I had a temp gauge on our old VS transmission and sitting still in traffic saw the hottest transmission temperatures. When you are at a stand still or moving slowly the converter is working the fluid creating heat but there is not a lot of air movement to keep temps down. Having the aircon on helped as that kept the thermofan on constantly but temps always slowly crept up and we all know heat is what kills transmissions. I believe Holden fixed some of those issues in later models with larger cooler transmission lines but then don't VE/VF models have thermostats in the trans coolers to keep them nice and warm?

 

[dassaur]

Of course it's all a marketing ploy to advertise the reduced cost of owning a vehicle but everyone has to draw a line in the sand somewhere on what reasonable expectation is. Why do manufacturers stipulate both a time and a distance? Why not just a straight 100,000km warranty? Or simply just 3 or 5 or 7 years?

Same goes for every industry. At my old job we had machines that were 40 years + old, some where on there 2nd or 3rd rebuild but they still went and they were covered in grease nipples, we had the newest most up to date versions of those machines too, almost no grease nipples and plastic parts that needed replacement after a few years service.

Vehicle use is very important, people think doing the daily school run or putting around town isn't hard use but it can be. I had a temp gauge on our old VS transmission and sitting still in traffic saw the hottest transmission temperatures. When you are at a stand still or moving slowly the converter is working the fluid creating heat but there is not a lot of air movement to keep temps down. Having the aircon on helped as that kept the thermofan on constantly but temps always slowly crept up and we all know heat is what kills transmissions. I believe Holden fixed some of those issues in later models with larger cooler transmission lines but then don't VE/VF models have thermostats in the trans coolers to keep them nice and warm?

The genuine trans cooler set up has a thermostat but the standard set up does not.

 

[Skylarking]

sitting still in traffic saw the hottest transmission temperatures.

Which is why it’s a good idea chucking the auto trans into neutral and stepping on the brake when stopped at the lights for a long red stint It’s especially helpful if the driver has a habit of just leaving it in D and holding the car on a slight uphill slope at the red lights using the throttle

Been that the car is well outside it's warranty period I don't think there is much recourse from that point of view.

It’s only outside Holden’s voluntary factory warranty duration but it can be argued that at 130,000kms it’s failed its durability requirements and that one’s statutory warranty should cover it.

Holden loved describing statutory warranty repairs as “good will” but down under they got jumped on by ACCC. Following this Holden were supposed to better train their dealers on this as aspect of statutory warranty as part of their court enforceable undertaking to ACCC. Unfortunately that undertaking has expired and now Holden just doesn’t give a shot any more… but the law is still on the buyers side (though they need to fight tooth and nail for their rights in law).

Not sure if NZ regulators got Holden to pick up their game in yje same was but it’s moot now as Holden has left the building… which is why one must go after the dealer if they still exist…

Or they can pay for the work to be done at inflated dealer rates and thus contribution to their Christmas fund

 

[Pollushon]

What you've described sounds like a catastrophic failure that could have happened regardless. Failure to service and tired fluid usually presents over time as hard shifts, chatter, slipping or long engagement duration. If it ran well and then just shat itself it's more likely you had a flawed component or someone on the line was having a bad day

 

[vc commodore]

Which is why it’s a good idea chucking the auto trans into neutral and stepping on the brake when stopped at the lights for a long red stint

Interesting comment....

Post #14 by @bluehighway says something different....He is saying leaving it in D has been better in his experience