Am I right in saying we cannot legally turbo the VF?

[Skylarking]

Private dealers have to sell goods that are fit for service at point of sale. That is law. I perused the contract i have, there was actually nothing in there relating to the fact that modifications at point of sale are the onus of the buyer. I had my partner look at it (post grad Juris Doctor), she found nothing.

I am wondering, a consumer walks through the door, buys a VF2 SSVR W407 off the floor...new, how are they to know that it might not pass emissions testing. Their insurer takes the money knowing the car is new, and is told it has the Walkinshaw package. I wouldn't suggest they are NOT ignorant. All dealers are licensed motor dealers and mechanics. They have a bigger part to play here than any consumer. The average consumer is not going to read through state-based modification guidelines, know about LF4 mod certs (QLD for example), and question a motor dealer/trader. There is nothing special in the purchase contract that is suggestive of anything about new cars from the floor being 'optioned' and then not being compliant.

Unless you can whip out your law degree and tell me how they have covered themselves in a way I cannot see, your comment is groundless.

You can legally buy LED or HID globes for your VF and make it unroadworthy with this simple of the shelf purchase. One poster on that globe thread even stated that their Holden dealer would fit them for him (as would supercheap) But not may, customers or businesses, seem to be concerned about such illegal mods on legally sold stuff

Businesses do all sorts of things to make a buck with some even mix malomine in milk (to deadly effects). So doing illegal car mods must be so trivial for the less scrupulous dealers out there. And I doubt all businesses fully think through what they are doing so covering themselves legally is not on their radar. Just like a purcaser would't be consiering the legality of having daler fitted mods.

Most people would consider big companies to be doing the right thing but sadly the banking royal commission tells us that's not the case. Car dealers are considered closer to the primordal sludge than bankers so what can we make of that

At the end of the day, if you're the driver of a car, it's your responsability in law that the car is roadworthy (even if its not your car). If you're pinged, the guy with the gun has the last say. But if you've done your due dilligence, have an enginnering certificate for the mods, you could have your day in court but in the most it would be like peeing in the wind... best you could hope for is that the fine would be $0 but you'd still have an unroadworthy car as a judge wouldn't likley overturn the RTA. You'd have to take the enginner to court for the enginnering certificate costs that are now worthless.

And we don't need law degrees here as in any court case, where experianced queens council type silks are involved and both sides tell their clients they have a case, one side always gets it wrong

End result is, you can't trust anyone as you are dealing with a faceless bureaucracy where no one is held to account and the courts never make mistakes

Like everything in life, do your research, make an educated assesment of risk/reward and move forward from that.

Me, i think you've done it the correct way so far

 

[Forg]

according to the thread, more than 20% increase in power renders the vehicle illegal from an emissions perspective. I cannot speak for all states/territories, but I can confirm that in QLD, after researching what was suggested on here, any vehicle with this performance increase needs an engineers report and a satisfactory emissions testing. The result is a simple yes/no, but based largely on the engineer providing the service.

I thought Queensland & NSW rules were the same as each other these days; but I’m not 100% sure on that.
However in NSW, changing something which has an effect on an ADR-specified thing requires a certificate. A cam changes emissions, so to the letter of the law you need a certificate for a cam change unless that cam was offered & ADR’d by the manufacturer.
In NSW the 20% number is about engine changes, if you fit an engine which meets the same ADR’s as the one you removed, it can have up to 20% more power than the original engine before you need a certificate. Most engine swaps are going to need changes in areas covered by ADR’s, eg. needing mounts fabbed up or what-have-you, but some engines are drop-ins (along with matching ECU/tune). You could indeed say the same 20% thing is relevant to mods you might do to an engine (again - this is NSW but I believe Qld is the same), however there’s almost nothing you can change on an engine that doesn’t affect emissions.

However, the reality is also ... how’s anyone going to do anything about a car that isn’t technically registered due to cam & tune mods? Is the insurance company really going to investigate that far if Something Bad happens? Especially if you’ve reported those changes to them & they’ve taken your money (technically they can just refund what you’ve paid - but you’d still be at least considering legal action if they refuse a claim on something where you’d listed all the mods with them).
I don’t know if the police are still teaming-up with the EPA to hold big stings where they heartily provide reams of defect notices to young people in modified cars, and all that’s needed is an accusation before the onus is dumped on the owner to prove something isn’t in violation; that would be a potential risk if you were in the target demographic (but I’ve not heard of those things happening recently).

 

[Skylarking]

Insurance companies will always do what is in their interest.

Be at fault in a crash into some cheap car and i doubt there will be any issue with them looking at the potentially illegalility of your declared mods. Be at fault in a crash into a $500k supercar and it may have a different outcome as the insurance company spends much more effort with potentially looking at how to get out of paying a huge sum. Between these two extreams you may run the gauntlet of some over zealous clark/manager tooking for runs on the board.

Heck, quite some years ago, one insurance company sent the vehicle repair bill to the parants of a dead kid that was deemed at fault for riding his bike into the street. It really didn't have a good look to it so the company quickly backpeddled and appologised once they realised the bad press was killing their business.

Worse than claim issues is if someone is killed in your at fault crash where you get the attension of the police and/or the coroner with possible charges if the vehicle is deemed unroadworthy and contributing to the crash (high speed crash in overpowered underbraked car with no engineering docs for example). It's always a gamble as you never know what could happen.

As always, access your mods and your behaviour on the road with a balanced understanding of the risks and rewards and in the normal course of events you should be ok (EPA stings exempted). Like everything in life, there are no guarantees.

 

[NewbC4KE]

Can someone tell me why this Tryg guy is deleting all his messages? Second thread I came across tonight and missing half the story.

Legit, what did you guys do to him ?

 

[vc commodore]

Can someone tell me why this Tryg guy is deleting all his messages? Second thread I came across tonight and missing half the story.

Legit, what did you guys do to him ?

Message him and ask him would be the best bet

 

[HighViz]

It would be a lot easier to get an aftermarket supercharger engineered than a turbo, as they come out with superchargers,
but i can't see why you would have a huge problem getting a single or twin turbo engineered providing you have all the correct
mods to cope with the extra power and meet emissions!

The guidelines they use to see whether you can have forced induction or not are exactly that, "guidelines"
and as such, wont stop you from being able to get an engineers cert if your engine capacity is greater than what they
say is allowed providing you can meet any and all modifications needed to the car to handle the extra power and also meet emissions!

You can get anything engineered if you have the money!

 

[HighViz]

Oh and before i get hammered with my comment.....i didn't read all the pages before i wrote my comment!

Just the first page on what was originally posted before it changed so apologies for anyone reading my comment and thinking
"this has nothing to do with what we are talking about" lol