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Creation vs Evolution

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Charg'd

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What does that prove?! Who says just because God created galaxies, does it mean that he wouldn't create the entire universe and have Earth a small part of the universe? Your evidence proves nothing. How do you assume they come up with 10 billion years old? I could pick a figure out of my backside too you know. I bet you were around back then to know the Earth was that old.

well, were you there? YOUR lack of evidence proves sweet **** all, just because you read some bullshit book, & listen to some preacher dont mean your correct
I am leaving this thread now due to the arrogance, ignorance and smart arse ness about the subject. When people are serious about discussing the subject, I would be happy to inform, but I don't need smartarses.

Your leaving this thread because you have been proved wrong & cant turn to your little book of bullshit for the answer more like it, have some balls & admit your wrong
 

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According to that website, God caused all the animals to come to Noah, yet it even admits itself that the bible offers no explanation of how this happened. How the hell does a Kangaroo get across the ocean to the Middle East????
That site is just too funny
 

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oh but all continents were still joined together, god moved them when every animal got on the ship........

dude its a load of ****, are you serious when you think that some bloke took a **** load of animals on a boat? Please, its worse than a story book my parents read to me when i was 5
 

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dude its a load of ****, are you serious when you think that some bloke took a **** load of animals on a boat? Please, its worse than a story book my parents read to me when i was 5

lol As i have pointed out before, the idea of an ark carrying 2 of each species is simply impossible. There are 1.7 million species in the world today, and given that evolution apparently doesnt happen, each one of those species would have had to have been existence at the time of the ark, possibly even more due to extinction. So that means 3.4 millions organisms had to fit on a boat that was, as is quoted on many creationist websites, as being 135 meters long (300 cubits), 22.5 meters wide (50 cubits), and 13.5 meters high (30 cubits).
Possible.....no
 

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oh but all continents were still joined together, god moved them when every animal got on the ship........

was that a serious comment?

Sorry, post have been added that cover this
 
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You know what? The most annoying thing about your attitude as always is, you have not come up with any evidence that proves the Earth is millions of years old. Don't tell me science. Science in general has been proven wrong many times by Creationists.

The Earth is approx 6000 years old which Christian's believe. Then again, there are many Churches that have compromised and believe evolution as a role-player. Pretty sad.

Correction, creationists have not PROVEN anything. Those websites yourself and mr. Partay have posted links to do not offer proof by any reasonable standard of evidence. They offer hypotheses based on a limited body of observational evidence and a large body of unsubstantiated textual evidence whilst ignoring the vast majority of experimental and mainstream observational evidence.

Case in point, scientific dating, I know I'm harping on about it but it's important that it be made clear their argument is grossly flawed. They make a big deal about inherent innacuracies in the process, most of which are known and can be corrected for. Their case for discrediting it hinges upon the great flood actually having occurred, yet they present NO reliable evidence of the great flood.

Second case in point the races. Their explanation of the operation of genetics is simple at best. To summarise the rest, it basically takes the events of the bible as automatic truth and says, now, taking this as truth let's make up a plausible story that could explain how things got to the situation we're in now. Eskimo's went north because they were a hardy people who didn't like the hot so much, pygmies buggered off to the forest because they were sick of being persecuted, tall skinny black fella's who liked the hot sun went to the arid regions. And the reason they're all different colours is because Noah and the gang (a group of people who's only claim to have ever being alive is an unsubstantiated textual reference) were a mid brown group with genes for both producing a lot and a little melanin and things rolled down from there. It's a nice story, and you know what, it could work. Problem being the archaeological record doesn't substantiate it, but I suppose the great flood would have messed up that record totally.

Third case, age of the universe. Well as Newtonian physics (or a close approximation thereof) functions quite nicely in most observable areas of the universe (black holes are a bit of a bitch when it comes to that but they aren't too important right now), distances between objects, their mass, velocity etc. Can all be determined using complicated applications of a few very simple formulas. The speed of light as determined by observation is roughly 3*10^8 m/s, so if we have the distance from earth to a star that can be seen in the night sky we can state that that star is at least as old as the time it would take for the light from it to reach earth. Many stars are known to be much older than 9000 years. To their credit, many creationists are perfectly willing to accept that the entire universe is more than 9000 years old, but those that aren't base their argument on the possibility that the speed of light may not always have been constant. Another thing for which they have NO evidence.

The other view is that God created the universe "as is" so not just the stars but the light between them and us. Can't argue with that, an all powerful God could do such a thing. Personally I've got no problem with the idea that God created the universe the earth etc. etc. makes about as much sense to me as the idea of a continually expanding and contracting space in a void, or the string theory version of events which is so weird I can't make head nor tail of it. I'm just saying that the old testament cannot be taken literally, there's is just too much evidence out there that contradicts it. So I either have to believe in a vindictive God who seeks to test us and our faith in him by subtly manipulating the laws of the universe to decieve us. Or accept that a book written, trasncribed and translated by humans is inaccurate and that should God exist, he is a kind, benevolent and forgiving father as described in the Gospels. I know which idea brings me more peace.
 

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Correction, creationists have not PROVEN anything. Those websites yourself and mr. Partay have posted links to do not offer proof by any reasonable standard of evidence. They offer hypotheses based on a limited body of observational evidence and a large body of unsubstantiated textual evidence whilst ignoring the vast majority of experimental and mainstream observational evidence.

Case in point, scientific dating, I know I'm harping on about it but it's important that it be made clear their argument is grossly flawed. They make a big deal about inherent innacuracies in the process, most of which are known and can be corrected for. Their case for discrediting it hinges upon the great flood actually having occurred, yet they present NO reliable evidence of the great flood.

Second case in point the races. Their explanation of the operation of genetics is simple at best. To summarise the rest, it basically takes the events of the bible as automatic truth and says, now, taking this as truth let's make up a plausible story that could explain how things got to the situation we're in now. Eskimo's went north because they were a hardy people who didn't like the hot so much, pygmies buggered off to the forest because they were sick of being persecuted, tall skinny black fella's who liked the hot sun went to the arid regions. And the reason they're all different colours is because Noah and the gang (a group of people who's only claim to have ever being alive is an unsubstantiated textual reference) were a mid brown group with genes for both producing a lot and a little melanin and things rolled down from there. It's a nice story, and you know what, it could work. Problem being the archaeological record doesn't substantiate it, but I suppose the great flood would have messed up that record totally.

Third case, age of the universe. Well as Newtonian physics (or a close approximation thereof) functions quite nicely in most observable areas of the universe (black holes are a bit of a bitch when it comes to that but they aren't too important right now), distances between objects, their mass, velocity etc. Can all be determined using complicated applications of a few very simple formulas. The speed of light as determined by observation is roughly 3*10^8 m/s, so if we have the distance from earth to a star that can be seen in the night sky we can state that that star is at least as old as the time it would take for the light from it to reach earth. Many stars are known to be much older than 9000 years. To their credit, many creationists are perfectly willing to accept that the entire universe is more than 9000 years old, but those that aren't base their argument on the possibility that the speed of light may not always have been constant. Another thing for which they have NO evidence.

The other view is that God created the universe "as is" so not just the stars but the light between them and us. Can't argue with that, an all powerful God could do such a thing. Personally I've got no problem with the idea that God created the universe the earth etc. etc. makes about as much sense to me as the idea of a continually expanding and contracting space in a void, or the string theory version of events which is so weird I can't make head nor tail of it. I'm just saying that the old testament cannot be taken literally, there's is just too much evidence out there that contradicts it. So I either have to believe in a vindictive God who seeks to test us and our faith in him by subtly manipulating the laws of the universe to decieve us. Or accept that a book written, trasncribed and translated by humans is inaccurate and that should God exist, he is a kind, benevolent and forgiving father as described in the Gospels. I know which idea brings me more peace.

Well said mate. Certainly is a MASSIVE post :)
 

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Wow, Deja vu.

I'm sure I've seen this thread somewhere before. Same results.

Just a few points to ponder:

1. The Jehovah Witness' Bible is the most accurate literal translation of the already flawed translation on which the modern bible is based. It is absolutely correct to liken it to "Chinese Whispers" as it has been changed to suit the audience as required many times. Before you ask, yes I have read many versions of the "Bible" and there are plenty of liberties taken with each translation. The context of some scriptures is changed completely. There was a new translation about five years ago I believe, that caused an uproar with the Catholic Church, though I could be wrong as I can't find it.

2. Many of the Bible stories can also be found in much older texts from Africa and India. Maybe the dating of these are flawed so perhaps they are newer.

Anyway, I would like to see a thread such as this continue. Nothing wrong with healthy debate.
My take on this thread is that "Evolution" has had a number of credible factual posts made in support of the argument for evolution, Creation has not.
To imply that something is proven just because the bible says so is a cop out.
Neither argument can be proved beyond doubt but there should at least be some effort made to support your argument other than this standard reply.
Links to biased Websites should also be avoided as they are meaningless.
 
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